As-Salaam Alaikum:
As you should know, we do not accept registration for membership without a detailed introduction. If you desire to sign-up as member, post a detailed introduction here. General comments from guests are also accepted here provided they are sensible enough and within the context of our work. If you're a Hadithist or an Islamophobe or a narcissist waiting to vent a shit-fit, don't waste your time on this page. Your intro or comment-perspective will be flushed down the proverbial toilet. Excuse me. Zero tolerance for egocentric rabble-rousers and rogue trolls.
Abusers and spammers will be reported. All comments are strictly moderated/filtered prior to approval.
General questions & answers in regard to Muslim Villa or any specific post at MV may also be put here.
This is an excellent site . May Allah bless you for your excellent work. I do get updates. My name is Abdalaziz Ariff from Indiana. Can you explain to me how to register at Muslim Villa.I am a simple and sinful Muslim. Age 60 years plus. I may disagree with Shia at the same time disagree with majority of the sunni sects, but insult not. Thanks my email iffatjahan@sbcglobal.net
ReplyDeleteRegistration at Muslim Villa is by clicking the "Register" button located on the horizontal bar on top of the homepage.
DeleteBy the way, we would appreciate if you explain a bit more on what you mean by "simple and sinful Muslim." We aren't counselors and not experienced in guiding "sinful" folks. Just letting you know.
As Salaamu Alaikum. My name is Asiya. I am 36 and do not believe in hadith. The Qur'an came down perfectly and does not state to follow words by man but not to. Finally someone else agrees with me. I can not find the place to introduce myself so I used this MA Sha Allah. I pray this is sufficient. I also download tapatalk to follow you but can not find you.
DeleteSalaam
ReplyDeleteMy name is Dan Taylor. I am revert of over 17yrs however only started practising since my father passed away 3 years ago. Quite honestly, I was introduced to the hadiths quite early on, it's what majority of traditional Muslims rely a lot on for guidance and right away what didn't resonate with my heart was the constant reference to the sunnah and not the Quran I am searching for the truth and God willing I hope to find it someday. I would be greatful if I could join this blog and benefit from it for the sake of Allah. Salaam.
Walaikum Salam and thank you for the introduction brother Danny. Kindly register at MV (I presume you have the MV link) by clicking the "register" button on homepage. We'll okay your registration as soon as we get it, InshAllah.
DeleteJzk sis Heba
DeleteI have registered.
Salaam All
DeleteIf anyone can provide me with a list of zakat recipients from the Quran I would be very greatful.
Jzk and Salaams
Thank u brother .... registration okayed. u can now login.
DeleteWould appreciate if you also introduced yourself at the forum's Intro New Members board so our guest readers may also get to know you.
Deletehttp://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?board=6.0
Salam,
ReplyDeleteI am a practicing Muslim who would love to call himself as non-denominational. I have done a fair amount of reading on the history and evolution of Hadiths and consider it as purely speculative and mostly contrary to the teachings of glorious Quran. I would love to contribute to any effort that attempts to bring the Muslim mainstream back to the constitution of Quran.
I have registered at MV as aamirsyed
Salam, I found your site while googling if Hajj was in the Quran because I consider it the main source of Islam. I do not agree with many hadith and don't trust the rest. I have tried another Muslim forum but they label you a "Quranist". Modern Islam is at least %50 hadith and 50% Quran and that is just wrong to me. I would love to talk to like-minded people. Jazak Allah khairun
ReplyDeleteSalam, I found your site while googling if Hajj was in the Quran because I consider it the main source of Islam. I do not agree with many hadith and don't trust the rest. I have tried another Muslim forum but they label you a "Quranist". Modern Islam is at least %50 hadith and 50% Quran and that is just wrong to me. I would love to talk to like-minded people. Jazak Allah khairun
ReplyDeleteWalaikum As-Salam AM. Thank you for the message. Unfortunately yes, Islam today is defined through hadith almost entirely and that's unacceptable. Still more surprising, the term "Quranist" is supposed to carry a negative connotation in Hadithist circles. Just shocking. Feel free to put in your queries. InshAllah, we'll soon be opening the guestbook board at MV so you can post questions there too as a guest. If you wish to register, do please post a more detailed intro.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is most Muslims are hadithists now so I am glad to have found a place. Where do I post a more detailed intro and what should I include in it?
ReplyDeleteSalaam AM. You can either post a detailed intro here. Or, the Guestbook at MV is now open and you can post it there if you wish. Though we're experiencing some technical issues in regard to guest replies in that board. It's up to you. Feel welcomed to post either here or there.
ReplyDeleteI am a female Muslim from America. I was born Muslim but raised without cultural Islam and emphasis was put on Quran rather than hadith. I have tried joining another forum before this, but it turned out to be full of Salafis who label you a "Quranist" and deviant if you do not agree with silly hadith that often contradict Quran or are baseless. They will come up with the mose asinine excuses for things like drinking camel piss being halal and good for health, or the hadith about a woman letting a grown man suckle on him which magically makes him mahram so he can see her without covering, not to mention letting a grown man that's not her husband touch her breast not being considered haram and how does that remove the sexual attraction of the man for the woman? These are the kinds of things that make me angry and I do not want to be associated or speak to Muslims who are so dumb that they can't do some critical thinking and read the many verses about the Quran being the only HADITH that's necessary. Ya Allah, He even uses that word!
ReplyDeleteI am very happy I found this forum, and people who think similarly. Inshallah it will be beneficial to me.
Salam and thank you for the intro, AM. If you wish to sign-up at our forum, kindly visit Muslim Villa and click the 'Register' button on top bar of the homepage. MV link below.
ReplyDeleteAlternatively, if you prefer to remain a guest you can put your questions here or in our guestbook board at MV.
Muslim Villa:
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php
Jazak Allah khairun, I registered as cherkessbint.
ReplyDeleteSalaam and welcomed AM. You can now post at MV.
ReplyDeleteHello SiteOwners,
ReplyDeleteI sent a request under the username "ash".
I found your site after 30 years of hardcore hadith worship. I use the term worship, after only recently understanding what is I have been doing. I've been on a quest for truth for roughly two years now. It began by me purchasing all nine volumes of Bukhari and reading them all, twice. And then doing the same with Muslim. I began doing this because I thought I would be more knowledgeable in field of Hadith. The outcome was entirely different than I imagined, and I'm glad it happened.
I'm a writer. I've written for film, television, and some books. I'm working now on a part-fiction/part-fact novel on this topic. Call it a Da Vinci Code for Islam. And I find your site may offer me a lot of valuable information that I should include.
Salaam. Thank you for your comment.
DeleteWhere do you stand in regard to the Noble Quran?
What's the ideology of the novel you're working on?
Salam Aleikum (Introduction from Khadija_H)
ReplyDeleteI am a 29 years old female Muslim from Denmark. My parents reverted to islam when I was 11, and I decided to do so as well one year later. I'll tell where I stand regarding The Quran by telling about en episode I experienced this week.
A few days ago I was attending an evening class in a Masjid I like and the topic was islamic law with focus on hygiene.
At some point the teacher says to us that it's sunnah to do ghusl during a drought. I raise my hand and asks her. "Sorry I'm asking this but to me it sounds unwise to tell people to bathe during a drought". The teacher tells me that since it is sunnah it's the right thing to do. I try to ask again, "Why would the prophet tell people to waste water during a drought?". She tells me that it doesn't matter why because the prophet has said so and that it is his sunnah. I decided not to continue because with those words people close the topic.
I felt downspirited and told my father, as I have done before, that it annoys me that people always seem to weight hadith so high because they're manwritten and everything manwritten should be able to be questioned and critizised. Since we both agree on this fact I can talk to him about these things. I asked him if no others than us believe that the Quran is what we need to seek answers from since it's Allah's words, and that hadith tends to complicate what Allah made easy. He told me that we're not alone but that people rarely speak up because they're afraid to do so and because the majority of people are pretty impossible to dicus this topic with. When I then asked him where to find people who share our views he recomended me to visit Muslim Villa.
I hope my introduction is saticfying and detailed enough, that I did everything right and posted at the right place.
Walaikum As-salaam Sister Khadija. JazekAllah Khair and many thanks for the interesting introduction. Also our thanks to your father for recommending you to visit Muslim Villa. The occurrence at the Masjid you mentioned is exactly the problem with majority of our traditionalist brothers and sisters. You are also right that many of them do realize the glaring discrepancies of the man-written hadith (much of it was never even narrated by our Prophet [pbuh]), but are afraid of the reaction of the mainstream. We thank you again for the intro and may Allah Almighty reward you for your wisdom and accurate perception, ameen.
DeleteWe request you to kindly register again with the same ID. By mistake your previous registration was deleted as its notification somehow reached us prior to the introduction which we discovered later. We sincerely apologize for that. InshAllah, as soon as we receive your next registration with the same ID, we will approve it for membership here.
Also do kindly check our boards "About us" and "Forum rules" for a better understanding of MV.
Thank you again, and we apologize again for the deletion of the former registration.
I just tried to register again sister and it says I am not allowed to register multiple accounts at the same time. No one but me uses my pc so I might have doubleclicked or something. I didn't rechieve a new welcome mail so I am unsure of if I have re-registered or not. I apologize for the inconvenience and I hope that you'll be able to find out if I re-registered.
DeleteUnfortunately we've been having some technical issues with this forum lately. That's obviously the problem. The first registration was deleted, so there should not be any obstacles for re-registration even if you are using the same email address. Can you please try registering again with a slightly different ID? Or try registering after a gap of 24 hours. Really sorry about this. Just keep trying, eventually you'll get through, InshAllah.
DeleteI'll give it 24 hours first to see if it'll take this ID and if it still doesn't work I'll try with a different one. No need to be sorry, technology can be quite tricky sometimes. I look forward to be registered and until then I can read the posts and topics on the forum. It lifts my spirit to have found a place with likeminded people.
DeleteMany thanks for your understanding, and appreciation of our forum, Sister. InshAllah
Deleteyou will be able to sign-in soon. And yes, in the meantime feel very welcomed to browse MV and read. Allah bless.
It did let me put in a registration request at last as Khadija_H. I hope you'll accept it. I have indeed been browsing MV and I especially liked the article, Effects of the Hadith on the Muslim Nation. I agree that it is deeply wrong to think that Ulama have monopoly regarding interpreting the Quran. Allah encourages thinking and reflection plenty of places in the Quran after all.
ReplyDeleteYes Sister, I received it and approved a little while ago.
DeleteThat's a good article and you're perception is wise. We look forward to some positive contributions from you at MV, InshAllah.
Thank you sister for your approval. I look forward to contribute to MV as well.
DeleteSalam,
ReplyDeleteMy name is Aijaz Haider. I came upon this site and read the article by sister Zainab on the enclosed link (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=168.0;wap2) and can totally relate to it. I find Quran a totally fascinating book. The deeper you ponder the more guidance and secrets are revealed. I know this will be a never ending journey for me now. Would like to join this forum to discuss with like minded people. I follow no sect in Islam.
I would like to have the screen name of ajzhyder and email ajzhyder@hotmail.com. It may already be there as I tried to register on the web site. Please check and let me know.
Thanks
Salam,
ReplyDeleteMy name is Aijaz Haider. I have sent my introduction earlier. I am checking now if it is approved or not. I am a Quran alone muslim, leaving my sect and seeking guidance from Allah's book and striving in the cause of making clear the message of Allah in His Book.
Salam
email: ajzhyder@hotmail.com
id: ajzhyder
Walaikum As-Salaam. Our apology for overlooking your introduction. Due to some technical problems with Blogger, we haven't been receiving notifications regularly. If you still wish to join, kindly register with ID "ajzhyder" and InshAllah, we will approve it.
DeleteSalam
DeleteThanks a lot. I have registered now with the Id:
ajzhyder
Waiting for its approval.
Salam
Wa'Salam. Your registration has not yet been received at MV. Please check if all technical requirements were met during registration.
DeleteThanks sister. I tried to do registration again. However, got an error message as below:
Delete'The letters you typed don't match the letters that were shown in the picture. '
While I did not see any pictures and any requirement to type letter as per pictures in the registration form.
Salaam brother. So sorry about that. Can you please keep trying on the registration? That error message is a problem within the captcha verification system. It's very likely it won't give the error note after 3 or 4 attempts. In the meantime I'll talk to our service provider on this technical issue.
DeleteI have re-adjusted this technical aspect of the forum for the time being. You can now try registering again.
DeleteSalam. Tried again, several times, however every time, Its is giving the same message that ' The letters you typed don't match the letter that were shown in the picture'
DeleteBrother, we have changed and simplified registration settings for approved members. Letter typing option is removed. After you've mentioned your username, email & password and check-marked the box for 'privacy policy' and 'I agree' then check-mark against "I'm not a robot" to select certain images with similar characteristics. Finally click the "register" button.
DeleteYes, please try again and InshAllah it will work. The image selection can sometimes be a bit repetitive but it's simple and eventually gets through.
Deleteassalam o alaikum brothers and sisters. my name is abdul munim. i am 25 years old from pakistan. i found about your site in ramazan karim. this is really a great work you are doing. this site is being a good source of islamic knowledge. my search for knowledge led me here and i wanted to be member of it.
ReplyDeleteregarding my sect and belief, honestly, i recently started thinking of calling myself "muslim'' instead of any special recognition as sunni or shia or hanbali or wahabi. in calling those names, i fear ALLAH because , in Quran, ALLAH says, i chose your name as "muslim'' and your deen " Islam". when ALLAH has chosen my name as muslim, why would i call myself otherwise.
as far as teachings and imams are concerned, all imams are true and all of them are very very sacred. here my concerns ends over imams.
i respect everyone.
my true concern is my own self and my iman. how far i am true and strong in it. rest is not my business. yeah, also preaching for good, sharing knowledge with other muslims, and stopping them from doing bad to society.
that concern lead me here. as ALLAH says, fear GOD and be with truthful persons. i am trying be with good people.
assalam o alaikum.
ReplyDeletei posted my intro some days ago but didnt get my approval. please consider my subscription. i have been waiting all along.
My name is abdul munim. i am from pakistan. i was searching over google about fasting back in ramzan and found out about this forum. i found it very good and helpful in islamic information as well as problems' solutions.
As-Salaam and thank you brother Abdel Munim. Our apology for missing out on your membership request. There's some technical problem with Blogger and we haven't been receiving notifications regularly. Kindly register and do let us know here, the user ID you select so we will approve it. Allah bless.
Deletei registered with username of momin but they say this ''Your details match those of a known spammer, therefore you have been disallowed registration''
Deletewhat should i do ?
As-salaam Alaikum brother. That problem is because of captcha verification issue. I've tried to readjust it for the time being. Can you please try registering again?
Deletei did try registering again and its done. message is ''' Thank you for registering. The admin must approve your registration before you may begin to use your account, you will receive an email shortly advising you of the admins decision'''
DeleteYes brother, we confirmed your registration. Welcome and thanks for joining us. Alhumdulilah.
DeleteSalam, I am a Muslim who believes in Quran and not in traditions and history books as basis of belief. Would like to join this blog for discussion on Quran topics.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Syed Haider
Walaikum As-Salaam. I would request you to kindly elaborate on your introduction and tell us more on your exact ideology and approach toward Islam. There are many folks who claim to be Quran-alone followers but are actually manipulating it the same way as other manipulators such as the so-called "progressive Muslims." Thus we need to be careful.
DeleteAssalamu Alaikum, I am Mahbub from Bangladesh. I am a Doctor. I am 42 years old. After an event in My life, I moved to The Holy Quran. Though I read Quran many times before, but at that moment I just cried when I felt the line from my heart : 2:2 This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, "without doubt", to those who fear Allah. Since then I just stick to it.
ReplyDeleteAnd I found hundreds of false notions about Islam in our society. But I can't share it to anybody surrounding me, because Those Beliefs are deep inside people's heart and they are not ready to listen. Fortunately, I found my wife and my only sister, who understands the situation and they both started reading Quraan with two English Transliterations of Marmaduke Pickthall and Yusuf Ali.
At that point, I searched the internet for other people who believes in the same way. I found your forum and another is quransmessage.com.
I tried several times to register in your forum but failed. My user name was uniqmr and my email address is mahbub73@hotmail.com / uniqmr@gmail.com. Please consider my application.
Walaikum As-Salaam brother Mahbub. Alhumdulilah, it was very heartening reading your journey to embracing the Noble Quran. May Allah Almighty bless and protect you, your wife and sister.
DeleteDear brother, at the moment because of the stress and hardships everyone is facing because of the pandemic, we are not accepting new registrations. But we encourage our guest readers to continue visiting Muslim Villa and reading the topics of their choice. However, if you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask in this Guest segment of our blog.
InshAllah, if Allah Wills, when life resumes to normal, your registration will be done. I thank you for your interest and your patience. I repeat, please continue visiting MV and putting up your queries here. Allah bless. May you and your family have the strongest of iman and stay safe & healthy. Ameen.
Please don't worry about the Pandemic. Just try to be safe as much as you can. Allah Says..
DeleteSurah Tagabun Ayat 11
مَا أَصَابَ مِن مُّصِيبَةٍ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَمَن يُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ يَهْدِ قَلْبَهُ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
No disaster strikes except by permission of Allah . And whoever believes in Allah - He will guide his heart. And Allah is Knowing of all things.
1. As you wrote "putting up your queries here". I want to know your explanation of Surah Nisa Ayat 159, about Return of Jesus. In your topic on it in MV (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1741.0), you did not mention this Ayat.
2. Another query, As I have searched the net to match my view on Islam and The Holy Quran, I have found only 2 websites (including MV), whereas there are thousands of websites on Islam. Why so little number of people think that they should follow the Holy Quran?
Thanks for reply.
Salaam again. Yes very true brother. Disaster strikes only by the permission of Allah Almighty and we need to look after ourselves. It seems to be that this pandemic is a punishment from Allah as humans around the world had become too arrogant and careless including many so-called Muslims. It hurts me very much to see that many of these people are still not waking up and repenting before The Almighty.
DeleteConcerning your questions:
Verse 4:159 has been explained in another topic titled "When Jesus (son of Virgin Maryam) ascended to the heavens, was he alive or dead?" under point 4 which I quote:
"There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them - " (4:159).
This means that none of Jesus' followers will believe in the miracle of his ascendency until the time of their death, and then, on the Day of Judgment Jesus himself will be a witness of the fact of his ascendency to them.
This is also a great prophecy of the Quran which has come true. At present, by far the majority of the Christians of all denominations believe that Jesus did die on the cross.
Hence those so-called Muslim modernists who think that Jesus was not alive during ascendency means that they believe he died on the cross. This subsequently means that they are actually following the view of the Christians which has been confirmed wrong in the Quran very plainly in Verse 4:159."
This is also a very important topic and you can read it at the following link:
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3771.0
Your second question is also very relevant, brother. My colleagues and I have also thought of it many times. In fact this was the aspect that made me start my own forum so that I could at least disclose what I clearly saw as the confirmed Truth, that is the Noble Quran only. We can also be sure from the type of substance contained that majority of the Ahadith are not the sayings of our beloved Prophet (pbuh). It has been inherent of humankind to construct narrations and quotes and use the name of recognized people to give leverage to their personal opinions. The Jews and Christians did that and altered their entire Divine Scriptures which Allah sent to them. Thus today we find the Old and New Testaments full of forgeries of medieval & modern clerics quoted in the name of Prophet Essa (pbuh). For that reason, Allah Almighty protected the Noble Quran because it is the Final Message. Allah refers in the Quran that this Book is in "Lawh al-Mahfooz" (Guarded Tablet) ref. V.85:22. That means Allah has Himself taken the responsibility to protect it from getting corrupted by human hands. Ahadith and fatwas are written or spoken by humans. Since the Noble Quran is protected by Allah Almighty, those human narrations have not been able to infiltrate into the Quran as they did in the Torah and the Bible by the handwritten works of the Jews and Christians. Thus our Muslim medieval clerics have found a separate channel to collect human writings. We only have The Almighty to thank for protecting His Beautiful Final Message. Otherwise, imagine how unfortunate we Muslims would be. As I said, it's innate of humans to follow the writings and sayings of other humans more readily than the Divine Words. Therefore, the culture of hadith and fatwas have taken over much of our Ummah while they set aside the Noble Quran. I've spoken to a lot of our brothers and sisters regarding this issue but very few understand. A lot of them also get angry and start quarreling. So now I just keep the Truth to myself because I don't want to argue with them. I loyally stick to the Quran myself, and in their company I stay silent when they talk of topics that are not linked with the Quran. Allah Almighty knows I'm innocent of following what He has not confirmed in the Quran, and we will all have to answer for ourselves on the Day of Judgement. I won't have to answer for them nor will they have to answer for me. And adhering to the Quran alone is very important. So ... I try to focus on those points with which they take from the Quran and I ignore their hadith following trends.
DeletePlease ignore my previous comment. Probably, you are in Canada / USA / UK. I can understand the situation there. Please answer later, when the pandemic is over. Sorry to disturb you.
ReplyDeleteYour questions were already answered long ago, brother. Please check my response above.
DeleteAsSalam Alaikum. This is in regard to a very lengthy, dissertation-like piece by guest-user named "hassium" on the topic of Quranic punishment for theft. I referred this lengthy comment to my colleague, Sister Zeynab, and she mentioned that she already took care of it at the social media (Twitter) with links of her discussion. Thus I decided not to post the same topic here. We at MV have no more to add and thus no further need talking on this subject. The final decision is with Allah as always with every issue, every aspect. There is no point on our part repeating the same contents over and over again.
ReplyDeleteAllah (Subhan wa'Tala) has bestowed on humans the propensity to make their own assessments to the best of their ability and to choose their path of conduct to make their personal decisions with the Quran as the Sole Furqan for direct instructions as well as broader guidelines, depending on the nature of every issue. To what extent each individual is able to achieve the right decision and observe right conduct will be decided by Him alone.
"Say: Each one does according to his rule of conduct, and your Rab is Best Aware of him whose way is right." 17:84 Noble Quran (Al-Isra).
Please know, MV isn't a debate center. We are here only put up what we perceive as true and balanced with the Quran as our only Criterion. Whether or not the contents of our site are accepted by our readers, or the level of their acceptance, is not our concern. If certain readers get fixated on any topic, they need to carry that fixation elsewhere. I reiterate, we neither have the time nor the inclination to get bogged down with psychological obsessions of readers. Once someone is told we aren't interested in further discussion, it's the call of decency to go away otherwise it amounts to pestering others with your personal fixation. If you are hellbent to continue discussion, take the matter elsewhere.
Thank you and Walaikum As-Salam.
Wa alaikum salam, the guest user you are referring to was me. And I would like to express my regret and apology for behaving exactly as you so correctly described. Pestering your team based on my own personal fixation on this particular reading on the Quran, with little interest in understanding the divine guidance but more about validating my long held obsession on the issue. Surely shaytaan took embrace of me when I decided to sit and write down all those things unprovoked, before submitting them here. Thank you for being straight and upfront with your response.
DeleteKind regards,
Hassan
Assalam mualaikum wrt. My question is wrt to the verse below
ReplyDelete33:50) O Prophet, We have made lawful for you your wives whose bridal dues you have paid,87 and the slave-girls you possess from among the prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and maternal aunts who have migrated with you, and a believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom he wants to take in marriage.88 (O Prophet), this privilege is yours alone to the exclusion of other believers.89 We know well what restrictions We have imposed upon them as regards their wives and those whom their right hands possess, (and have exempted you from those restrictions) that there may be no constraint upon you.90 Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.
In my understanding of the above verse, Allah swt clarifies who is eligible to be wed by the Prophet pbuh. The first are the wives he is already married to and paid their due dowers. The second are his first cousins from either side that entered Islam. And third is a woman who offers herself for marriage to the prophet without dower, exclusively as a privilegr to him and not to the rest of believers.
In todays context...would this mean believers can only marry their believing first cousins? Because the first and third appears to be specific for the prophet pbuh while the second is common to all believers due to earlier verse in sura Nisa. And would a dower be necessary for this form of union since its not mentioned in the verse with relation to cousin marriage?
I appreciate your insight and thoughts on the matter, thank you and kind regards.
Hassan
Walaykum AsSalam brother Hassan. I don't really see it as restricted to only first cousins. It could also include second or third cousins or beyond. In this regard Verse 33:50 refers to daughters of paternal uncles & paternal aunts as well as maternal uncles & maternal aunts. These paternal and maternal uncles and aunts can be the brothers and sisters of our parents or they can also be the cousins of our parents. E.g. If a man marries the daughter of his father's first cousin or mother's first cousin, in that case that woman will be that man's second cousin. Such a relationship is definitely allowed among Muslims. I'm certain about that.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, our parents' cousins are also our uncles and aunts though of course not as close as those uncles and aunts who are their siblings. And we do know for sure that marriages with cousins are allowed, be they first cousins or second or farther.
Hope this helps.
Dear brother Najaf Truth Seeker,
DeleteIndeed, your response was quite helpful esp noting that aunts and uncles can have multiple degree of kinship...the closest being the full siblings of our parents. Likewise cousins can be multiple degree of kinship. The closest being the children of our parents full siblings. Such is the infinite wisdom of Allahs arrangements in establishing His creation on Earth, tying together the entire humanity of different skin color and languages through our shared ancestry like a rich intricate tapestry.
So the critical factor of lawfulness in the above verse must mean any women who made the hijrah to Medinah from Mecca?
As in...the prophet pbuh cannot marry the (free) women native to Medina even though they are also Muslim and their beauty may be pleasing to his eyes? As I understand from the below verse:
(33:52) It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth, nor that thou shouldst change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee, save those whom thy right hand possesseth. And Allah is ever Watcher over all things.
Finally, are verses 50-52 in any way relevant to us Muslims today as it appears to be a commandment specific to the Prophet pbuh during a specific stage of his life?
Jazakallahu Khayran for giving your valuable time in responding to my questions.
Hassan
Marriage between cousins as permitted for the Prophet (pbuh) in V.33:50 is also permitted for all believers. It's only the permission of waiving dowry in case getting married in the difficult & extraordinary circumstances as existed in Medinah at the time was only for the Prophet (pbuh). But whether or not the Prophet (pbuh) availed this concession is not known to us. The relationships that are not permitted for marriage for believers have been elucidated in Vs. 4:21-25 of Surah An-Nissa and V.2:221 Surah Al-Baqrah.
DeleteVerses 51 and 52 of Surah 33 are the guidelines and instructions from Allah Almighty to His messenger.
Medinah was the first nascent Muslim state in Islamic History with the Prophet as its leader. It was a time when he (pbuh) was extremely busy with matters, concerns and responsibilities of running a state. He did not get much time to spend with family. Obviously it was not possible for him to spend much time with all his wives every day. In view of the circumstances Allah Almighty advises him in V.33:51 that in case he isn't able to spend much time with his wives or with any one of his wives, he is allowed to make adjustments in his personal schedule but also make sure not to neglect any of his wives altogether. Similar to the Prophet's public life, his (pbuh) personal life also carried plenty of responsibilities.
V.33:52 is an order and a reminder which many keep forgetting until the present. This Verse plainly asserts that the option of having more than one wife does not denote that a man can take his marriage vow lightly and divorce any one of his wives any time he desires, and marry someone else for frivolous and shallow reasons like outward beauty etc. Such approach is not acceptable in the Sight of Allah Almighty and this isn't the reason for permitting a man to have more than one wife. Of course the Prophet (pbuh) never adopted such an approach. But as a rule, The Almighty highlights this issue to the Prophet and it applies to everyone.
Salam again,
DeleteWhile taking marriage vows seriously and not marrying another woman because of her beauty, after being already married is an honourable stance , I feel this verse isn't alluding to such behaviour . Its a direct prohibition for the prophet pbuh to marry anybody...ugly or beautiful, rich or poor , beyond the 3 categories mentioned in the earlier verse from the moment of which this verse was revealed .
In my opinion it seems to reinforce the idea of who should the (male) believer seek to marry...ie someone from their extended families who are Muslim with or without paying a dower. Not having to pay dower is because verse 33:50 didn't mention dowry when daughters of extended family are mentioned . But I'm not sure about this .
I know paying a dower is compulsory (unless waived by the women) in earlier verses but it could be the law is amended and updated as spread of Islam progressed reflecting change in the lived reality of Muslims .
Looking forward to your views, jazakallahu khayran.
Okay fine. .. In my opinion V.33:50 mentions those women whom the Prophet (SAW) can marry, and the same categories are apparently permissible for all Muslim men .. except for the dower concession.
DeleteV.33:52 is not about categories, it simply touches a common point affirming not to dump one wife and take another for superficial or flimsy reasons. Since beauty of another woman is one of the common reasons for distraction & divorce by a man to his existing wife, so The Almighty has mentioned that point. There's nothing complicated here as I see.
Wa'salam br. hassum. Dowry under normal conditions is mandatory for all men. Ref. Vs. 4:23-24 that mention the categories whom a Muslim man isn't permitted to marry. All beyond that are permitted which includes extended family as well as non-relatives and dowry is necessary in all those cases, unless the woman agrees to forgo it.
Delete"Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom you seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what you do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Indeed! Allah is ever Knower, Wise." 4:24.
Salam sister Ruhi,
DeleteAh okay, so V.33:50 simply reaffirms the women the Prophet pbuh is allowed to marry (and has married) while V.33:52 marks the limit set for the Prophet from here on out?
Basically its...you have married whoever you have married lawfully (women he paid dowry, women from his extended family who migrated to Medina, a woman who offered herself without dowry ), but from this point on you are no longer allowed to add to or replace any of the women married to you for any reason .
I got it now , thanks for your patience ! But are dowries required if we marry women from extended family ? I'm guessing we still do....it's not mentioned in the verse out of redundancy?
Yeah, well, it means henceforth not allowed to take more wives nor divorce the existing ones replacing them with another for insubstantial or improper reasons like mere outward looks etc.
DeleteYes dowry is certainly required for all women including those of extended family. Concentrate on V.33:50 and then Vs.4:23-24. V.33:50 mentions women of extended family allowed for marriage (to Prophet and every believing male). Dowry was only waived for the Prophet pbuh in Medina for a specific reason and at an extraordinary time. Coming to Verses 23 & 24 of Surah 4 which is law for all times and everyone including the Prophet of course, first Allah mentions those women not allowed for marriage. Then Allah mentions that all women outside this forbidden list are allowed only through marriage (not extra-marital relations) and by providing them their "portions as a duty" which refers to dowry and this surely includes women from extended family.
"Yeah, well, it means henceforth not allowed to take more wives nor divorce the existing ones replacing them with another for insubstantial or improper reasons like mere outward looks etc."
DeleteNo brother I have to disagree . I see no reason to interpret it as merely limiting the Prophet pbuh's marital freedom based on stringent criteria. Its an absolute order forbidding any more marriages for the Prophet pbuh regardless for how good of a reason it may seem to be. (Except "slaves" under his possession )
"Yes dowry is certainly required for all women including those of extended family"
I have learned this to be most correct, thank you for reminding me of this truth. However can the women willingly forgo receiving it ? I know they can willingly return it after marriage if they choose to ... but to not actually getting it at the point of nikah would render the ceremony invalid right ?
I didn't say it was limited only to the Prophet pbuh. And if you check my earlier response, I already implied that it's a general law applying to all including the Prophet. Quoting myself Aug.30th (check by scrolling up this thread) "V.33:52 is an order and a reminder which many keep forgetting until the present. This Verse plainly asserts that the option of having more than one wife does not denote that a man can take his marriage vow lightly and divorce any one of his wives any time he desires, and marry someone else for frivolous and shallow reasons like outward beauty etc. Such approach is not acceptable in the Sight of Allah Almighty and this isn't the reason for permitting a man to have more than one wife. Of course the Prophet (pbuh) never adopted such an approach. But as a rule, The Almighty highlights this issue to the Prophet and it applies to everyone."
DeleteFurthermore I don't follow what you're saying here. Quoting you:"..... I see no reason to interpret it as merely limiting the Prophet pbuh's marital freedom based on stringent criteria. Its an absolute order forbidding any more marriages for the Prophet pbuh regardless for how good of a reason it may seem to be. (Except "slaves" under his possession )"
You first mentioned that it doesn't limit merely the Prophet's marital freedom ..... and then you said the same thing in different words quote "It's an absolute order forbidding any more marriage for the Prophet ..." As I already stated, I think it's an instruction and a reminder for all, not just for the Prophet (pbuh).
Secondly in Verse 33:52 Allah does not mention about reasons, but let's use our common sense based on other Quranic laws on marriage. Quran does allow divorce when reconciliation is not possible as decided by both husband and wife. There is no law in the Quran that asserts divorce as permissible to all Muslims but not the Prophet pbuh. Verse 33:52 broadly indicates marriage to be a serious vow and shouldn't be taken lightly. That's why Allah mentioned the example disallowing exchanging one wife with another based on looks or beauty. That would be an improper reason and I'm sure there are other unsuitable reasons too. However, there can be valid reasons as well. In that case there is no compulsion according to Quranic rules not to annul the marriage. This rule too is for all, including the Prophet. However, the Prophet pbuh never went through any divorce, Alhumdulilah.
DeleteJust to elucidate this point further, Verse 33:28-29 can be taken as evidence that divorce was allowed to the Prophet pbuh.
"O Prophet, say to your wives, "If you should desire the worldly life and its adornment, then come, I will provide for you and give you a gracious release. But if you should desire Allah and His Messenger and the home of the Hereafter - then indeed, Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a great reward." 33:28-29.
What was the precise situation when these Verses were revealed is only known to Allah. But it's clear, and simple to understand it .. that The Almighty tells the Prophet if any of his wives are too inclined toward materialism or worldly wealth, he can tell them that he is willing to give them their legal compensation to end the marriage. Verse 33:29 is self explanatory. Some traditional stories claim that this was a time when two or three wives of the Prophet demanded more money than the Prophet could afford to give them for personal or household expenses. This maybe true but we cannot confirm. However, on reading V.33:28 it seems the situation was obviously similar. In any case, my point for quoting this Verse is to confirm that divorce is allowed on essential grounds to everyone including the Prophet.
Regarding your query "but to not actually getting it at the point of nikah would render the ceremony invalid right ?"
According to V.4:24 (and several other Verses too) it clearly seems that it's mandatory for the future husband to provide a dowry during the time of marriage (or aqd al-nikah) unless the future wife willingly agrees to forgo it or part of it. If the man is not able to give a dowry and the woman willingly says "no problem," then it's fine. Otherwise I don't think aqd-al-nikah can be performed. After all, the woman can't be forced to forgo the dowry. Qutong V.4:4 "And give unto the women (whom you marry) free gift of their marriage portions; but if they of their own accord remit unto you a part thereof, then you are welcome to absorb it (in your wealth)."
Dear brother,
Delete"You first mentioned that it doesn't limit merely the Prophet's marital freedom ..... and then you said the same thing in different words quote "It's an absolute order forbidding any more marriage for the Prophet ..." As I already stated, I think it's an instruction and a reminder for all, not just for the Prophet (pbuh)."
I stand by my point above. If I may clarify, what I meant is the verse is an order of prohibition, not limitation which carries a different meaning.
In my understanding, Allah swt is saying there are no more avenues or allowances for the prophet pbuh, to marry anybody beyond this point, regardless if its for an honorable cause or less so. The full wisdom behind such a commandment is known only to Allah swt.
The verse do not in any way prohibit the prophet pbuh from divorcing any of his wives or any of his wives divorcing him so the issue of valid reasoning is not relevant here. Allah only prohibits the Prophet pbuh to replace any of the wives he divorced.
While the sentiment of not marrying and divorcing recklessly, or being too caught up in the pursuit of beauty over more noble characteristics are definitely Islamic virtues...this particular verse simply does not showcase such and therefore I felt it needed stating.
Needless to mention, you're more than welcomed to stand by whatever your view point is.
DeleteJust to go over a few points to reiterate our opinion:
Quoting you:"Allah swt is saying there are no more avenues or allowances for the prophet pbuh, to marry anybody beyond this point,"
According to my thinking, Allah is not saying that. Allah is saying (paraphrase) once the Prophet is agreeably married, he cannot exchange one wife with another for unnecessary reasons. Brother Najaf already explained that to you. That bit you stated "regardless if its for an honorable cause or less" is your own assumption. The Verse gives no reason presuppose that. I certainly don't think so.
Probably you're mixing up the issue of marrying another woman v/s. divorcing an existing wife and marrying another woman. Muslim men aren't allowed to have beyond 4 wives and it was the same for the Prophet (pbuh). Traditional sources have misunderstood, rather intentionally distorted V.33:50, circulating unfounded / incorrect stories of the Prophet having 9, 11, 13 or even up to 19 wives. V. 33:50 does NOT give any reasons to assume the Prophet was allowed more than 4 wives as a "privilege" as spoken by the Hadith institution. The Verse simply speaks of waiving dower for the Prophet in certain cases because of the exceptional situation in Medina. To get more details on this aspect, please visit the MV link at the end of this post. Obviously if a man already has 4 wives and wants to marry someone else, he will have to divorce one of his existing wives. It was no different for the Prophet (pbuh). This is clearly the allusion in Verse 33:52 as per standard marriage/family laws elucidated in the Quran.
Valid reasoning or rationale is a must at every step according to Quranic principles. Nothing in the Quran is without valid reasoning.
'Does the Quran allow the Prophet (pbuh) to have more than 4 wives?'
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4783.0
Salam sister Heba,
DeleteI am a bit disjointed in my readings of the Quran at the moment...and will try to read the verses in discussion again with your analysis in mind.
My initial interpretation is purely based on the language of the translated verse, which of course is never going to be as robust as intepretation based on sound understanding of preexisting Quranic laws and a submitting heart to why Allah sent down the Quran as a whole.
I will read them again and offer my views, insha Allah.
"I am a bit disjointed in my readings of the Quran at the moment .... My initial interpretation is purely based on the language of the translated verse,"
DeleteI see, no wonder your angles of perception are at sixes and sevens, and often shifting. Personally, I don't think that's a right method at all. The Noble Quran is complete & comprehensive with all essential laws, practical as well as spiritual. But usually, you won't find any of those complete set of laws in a single Chapter or Surah as in a college or school textbook. The Noble Quran isn't like that, Alhumdulilah. All sets of laws pertaining to different issues of life are contained throughout the Final Message piecemeal in stages. Therefore it's of utmost importance to be generally well acquainted with the entire Quran through regular readings as a permanent practice. Otherwise the task of interpretation is bound to be difficult and faulty. Also, many Verses are linked with their immediate-preceding or following Verses. Thus there are many Verses, if not most, that cannot be elucidated independently which would result in an out-of-context interpretation. For a better grasp, one has to go far beyond the language or style of translations.
Salam all,
Delete"Muslim men aren't allowed to have beyond 4 wives and it was the same for the Prophet (pbuh). Traditional sources have misunderstood, rather intentionally distorted V.33:50, circulating unfounded / incorrect stories of the Prophet having 9, 11, 13 or even up to 19 wives"
Is this legit ? Information from Muslim Villa presents details of Prophet Muhammad pbuh 's marriages and the number of his wives therein is consistent with traditional recollection of his life. Quote below along with the source url :
"The Prophet had 12 wives in all, but when he died, he had 9 wives. They all have a very special status in the hearts of Muslims. They are all recognized as the "Mothers of the Believers" according to the dictate of the Quraan. Their names are, in the order of marriage: Khadijah bint Khuwaylid, Sawdah bint Zamah, Aisha bint Abi Bakr, Hafsah bint Umar ibn Al-Khattab, Zaynab bint Khuzaymah, Umm Salama, Zaynab bint Jahsh, Juwayriah bint Al-Harith, Umm Habibah, Safiyah bint Huyay, Maimuna bint Al-Harith and Maria the Copt."
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=587.0 (Posting date : June 17, 2007)
Anyways I would like to bring into conclusion from my side, what I understand from reading verse 33:50 - 33:52 since I originally posted my query here.
These are Medinan verses revealed in the latter stages of the Prophet pbuh's mission and most definitely after his emigration to Medina . Verse 50 Allah declares all marriages of prophet pbuh as lawful under His decree, including one specifically applying only to him. All believers are to follow the same well established rules of marriage barring the aforementioned exclusive privilege for the prophet pbuh . (non-mahram, give dowry, candidate must also be Muslim or Ahl kitab, done publicly with witnesses)
Verse 51 has been very succinctly and logically explained by brother Najaf above and I am in complete agreement with his reading . Maybe one thing I want to add is here Allah validates the overt sense of compassion within the prophet pbuh's heart for his wives, including ones he may have separated himself from but wishes to reconcile with. Allah state this desire as being beneficial for his wives collective happiness .
Verse 52 brings to conclusion the marital chapter of prophet pbuh's life. Everyone he is married to up till now is lawful and he has been given guidance on dividing his time and energy between his wives. So it is decreed from hereon out he is no longer allowed to marry anyone else nor exchange any of his current wives for new ones. Exception for female slaves presently under his charge . (i.e if he wants to marry more women , he can do so by marrying the slaves he possesses currently , following the established rules of marriage including the giving of dowry, public witnesses etc). This imho is to further reinforce the high status of women under Islam and speed up the end of slavery .
I would like to thank the members of MV for humoring my ramblings and patiently going through my writings before responding to them with wisdom and tact.
Jazaakum Allaahu khayran
Hassan
Walaykum As-salam. You're right brother. The post on discourse of the Prophet's (pbuh) marriages which you quoted is no more valid as it was put up a decade earlier, much before we did a complete research on Quranic evidence to conform with common traditional claims, and we found Quran does not support the view that Prophet(pbuh) was given the privilege to have more than 4 wives. He was only given the privilege to waive dower in certain cases and in a specific situation.
DeleteWe had been meaning to attach an appendix with this post that it's been updated with a link to the latest one, but somehow it was omitted by oversight. Sorry about that. The link given to you by Sister Heba is the one we adhere to.
Many thanks for talking to us. JazekAllah Khair.
"we did a complete research on Quranic evidence to conform with common traditional claims, and we found Quran does not support the view that Prophet(pbuh) was given the privilege to have more than 4 wives. He was only given the privilege to waive dower in certain cases and in a specific situation."
DeleteIm sorry brother but *who* made such a claim and how does an erroneous claim on a particular verse be used as a basis of disproving historical events outside of the scope of the verse itself ? I personally have never gone through verifying the number of wives of the prophet , but your frame of analysis appears to be a strawman fallacy.
The Quran clearly says the wives of the prophet pbuh are not like any women , and they are to be viewed as mothers of believers . With those facts in mind, it would have been impossible for early Muslims to not taken the effort to preserve the memories of our mothers both in their oral history or in writing . And this logically should include how many of them were there. Just as it would be unthinkable for us today to have doubts or confusion on who our own mothers are, as opposed to other women in our lives . Plus...marriages in Islamic traditions are hugely public events often with celebrations and feasting so it would be impossible for the early Muslims to not have a firm record of marriages of our beloved prophet pbuh.
Not that I disagree with the privilege in reference to verse 33:50; its certainly and rather obviously referring to waiving giving a dower to a woman who offer herself for marriage to the prophet pbuh. (an un-Islamic version of this still happens albeit through cultural pressures in many areas of South Asia...women are given away by their own families to the groom not even for free but at a cost they foot !)
However to my knowledge, none of verses of the Quran touches the subject matter of the *number* of wives of the prophet pbuh, atleast never directly. As such i feel it is irresponsible to make a claim that is so faraway from any body of knowledge existing presently or historically , such as the prophet pbuh was only allowed 4 wives. Even if its true, such historical facts cannot possibly be extracted from verses that never addressed the subject matter to begin with .
Salaam brother hassium.
ReplyDeleteAs you already know our forum is Quran only. I thought you knew that well enough. Plus, Sister Heba also highlighted this aspect briefly in this page. We do not take hadith as "history." In fact there's a big difference between dadith and history which too we have penned in our forum.
Having said that, we do not consider tradition aka Hadith as a reliable source of evidence by a long shot; particularly since we have worked very hard for years researching the history of hadith itself, discovering it has more holes in it than a bar of Swiss cheese. All our findings are clear to read in our hadith board. If one isn't interested in reading, that's there problem.
Moreover, according to you, just because marriages are full of frolic and feast, and the Prophet's "13" or "15" or "19" so-called marriages must have also been noisy orgies (Nauzbillah) lending credence to hadith gossips. Please keep such discrepant analysis to yourself. I have no comments on such ignorance.
Since the Quran does not mention the number of wives of the Prophet, so you consider it's appropriate to presume 'why not more than 4 wives.' Our perception is the opposite. The Quran does not mention the number of Prophet's wives, but the Quran does mention that Muslim men cannot have more than 4 wives and neither does the Quran say that this law does not include the Prophet, hence we fear Allah Almighty too much to concoct conclusions NOT supported by the Quran. The Noble Quran does give enough information to rationalize the matter, and what can be a more reliable source, Alhumdulilah? Hadith (or traditions) is much too tainted to be taken as a basis for study, let alone using those tittle-tattles (which have left no stone unturned to slander our beloved Prophet) as authentic data.
"(O man), follow not that whereof you have no knowledge. Indeed! the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be asked.." 17:36.
If the Prophet had more than 4 wives, that's up to Allah Almighty to judge. It's none of my business because Allah has not told us that. My job is only to utilize the information given to me by Him in His Final Message. We aren't interested in meddling with unnecessary information. Whatever information is not in the Quran, we leave it to Allah. We do NOT take that as a reason to rummage through the hadith blathers and whispers to satisfy our curiosity.
Our standpoint on Verse 33:52 remains exactly as mentioned. I'm closing this topic.
Please in future, if you don't accept our view, don't come again and again to argue. It doesn't help anyone and the umpteen number of repetitions waste too much of our time. This isn't a debate room nor are we in a mission to convince anyone. We only express our own opinion with our explanations according to our study. We've already said that earlier. How many more times do we need to say it?
Walaikum As-salaam.
Fair enough. I just felt this particular subject was quite rushed through in its analysis, and seem to lack rigour that is characteristic of MV. Almost seems like the decision was already made even before any research took place. Just a hunch.
DeleteAnd the orgies jibe is uncalled for. Obviously I meant that marriages in Islam involve a (mostly) public ceremony of taking oaths and solemnisation of marriage vows in front of witnesses from the community. This ceremony is enough to give the general public an idea of who got married and with whom, moreso the prophet pbuh being the widely beloved leader of the ummah. Plus,by feasts I mean the typical food served after weddings to family and friends in attendance. Not necessarily something extravagant...all of which wouldve been part of early Muslims conciousness that they passed down the generations. This doesnt have to be considered as hadith...just elemental transmission of history from one generation of believers to the next.
Lastly...as Muslims we are constantly on guard from shaytaan and the evil of our nafs, while we seek to practice the Quran to the best of our abilities until death reaches us and we return back to Allah for the final judgement. Under this context...discussing the number of wives of the prophet pbuh does seem like ugly gossip. However the reverse of falsehood doesnt mean the truth.
"Almost seems like the decision was already made even before any research took place. Just a hunch."
DeleteAs usual, quite an incorrect and befuddled 'hunch.' If it was a foregone conclusion prior to research as you claim, why would Sister Zeynab put up the previous post on the discourse of the Prophet's [pbuh] marriages more than a decade ago and then nullify it with new findings? The reason being, back then we hadn't explored this field enough. Thus the previous post was more akin to conventional or societal stories/cusotms rather than Quranic contents and its analyzed logic. Yet, it's always Allah Who knows best; and surely He knows that we tried to the best of our conscience by looking upon His Words alone as our Sole Furquan.
"as Muslims we are constantly on guard from shaytaan and the evil of our nafs, while we seek to practice the Quran to the best of our abilities .."
Indeed, ameen. We all need to work on that. You need to work on that for a firmer footing as you appear too much at sea with your study of the Quran, sometimes presuming one thing, next moment something else which goes on and on like an endless rotation of seasons. May Allah Almighty assist you with that, for which you have to first make yourself worthy of His assistance.
"However the reverse of falsehood doesnt mean the truth."
The reverse of falsehood may or may not be the truth. The confirmed answer is with Allah alone. But that doesn't mean as human beings we let go. When falsehood, fabrication or perfidy becomes lucid enough (and it always does at some point), it's opposite is surely closer to the truth and far more advisable to opt for rather than confusedly or lazily embracing falsehood head-on as many often seem to be doing, including yourself, sometimes out of genuine lack of knowledge, sometimes by seeking too many differing sources for opinions and sometimes out of mere obduracy. In all such cases truth (or even near truth) is frequently not recognizable by folks as their perception & discernment are constantly obstructed by their own bewilderment. Again, may The Almighty assist you with that.
As-Salam Alaykum wa'Rehmatulallahi wa' Barakatuhu.
"put up the previous post on the discourse of the Prophet's [pbuh] marriages more than a decade ago and then nullify it with new findings? "
DeleteHonestly, I never saw it that way. The thread being referred to on this subject clarified the misunderstanding or rather misinterpretation of verse 33:50 by deviants. To be fair, I thought such effort is unneccessary because the truth is crystal clear to anybody with a functional IQ the verse meant exception in giving dower not anything else, just by reading the translation in a sober state.
Again, while hadith are definitely dodgy and are a tool of shaytaan, historical recollections shouldnt be invalidated just because hadith writers choose to use them for their nefarious objectives.
Beyond that, the only other means of nullification of the previous post is restating that the Quran only allow us to marry up to 4 wives, but strongly advocate just marrying one out of legitimate concern of injustice between the wives. The translation and meaning of this verse is the subject of many discussions and studies by Muslims all over world. Not all would agree it to mean as what MV deemed it to mean. I will not further cloud this discussion with alternative opinions and analysis, which is out on the open and anybody can seek to find them.
Wa alaikum salam warrahmatullah hewa barakattuh
"Honestly, I never saw it that way. The thread being referred to on this subject clarified the misunderstanding or rather misinterpretation of verse 33:50 by deviants. To be fair, I thought such effort is unneccessary because the truth is crystal clear to anybody with a functional IQ the verse meant exception in giving dower not anything else, just by reading the translation in a sober state."
DeleteBut you clarify matters the wrong way.
It meant that we have interacted with several hadithists on this Verse and topic who conjectured and concluded that it refers to the special privilege of more than 4 wives for the Prophet (pbuh), up to 4 wives being permitted for all Muslims. It was obvious the Verse indicates nothing of the sort. However, we didn't stop there. Additionally, our study of the Quran and careful perusal of various other Verses also proved the Noble Quran gives absolutely no reason to assume the hadithist claim. It's a common maneuver of hadith adherents to somehow force out a reason from the Quran to justify hadith claims by twisting Quranic Verses. So, we were not surprised by their stance. And for sure such an approach amounts to deviance.
No need to respond to the rest of your comments. May Allah Almighty grant you guidance and insight.
This topic is closed on all future comments coming from you. Allah Hafez.
This brother distinctly has mental health issues, some type of mental / emotional irritation, full of restlessness with his own perception and decisions.
DeleteI think so too. That's very obvious.
DeleteAssalamualaikum wrt MV team,
ReplyDeleteToday, if I may , I would like to put forward a particular topic that has been widely discussed in Islamic social media spheres over the past few years. That topic is "gheerah" , translated as protective jealousy or even honourable jealousy in English . It refers to the general fear and concern men should have towards their mahrams and wives in going against the commandments of Allah . Vice versa for women towards their mahram and husband . The general idea is summarized in the YouTube video linked below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1FgJ4QYdPU
While the topic appears to be deeply relevant to Muslims, the various talking points concerning it has been mostly based on hadith from my experience. As such , I am curious and interested in knowing what is the perspective from a Quran only understanding towards this concept .
Looking forward to hear from you ,
Regards
Hassan
Walaykum As-Salam. Our guest book isn't really a venue for lengthy moot points and queries one may have every now and again. And a discussion such as this with someone having as little knowledge of the Quran as yourself who is only interested in repudiating and arguing could go one until 2022. We simply don't have that kind of time. Apology.
DeleteMV is already pretty comprehensive. At the moment and in future, if you're looking for answers kindly browse through the relevant boards on your own as other guests are doing and you're bound to find our perspective, directly or indirectly, on just about every Quranic topic, InshAllah.
Concerning the issue you mentioned, check the following topics at MV and feel free to arrive at your own conclusion regarding our perspective and your own.
Much ado about nothing
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=431.0
Status of women comparing Quran & Bible http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=83.0
Expression 'men are a degree above women'
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=227.0
Rape victims are not required to produce witnesses
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1466.0
"Lower their Gaze" does not Mean to Avoid Eye-contact or to not Interact
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1751.0
" discussion such as this with someone having as little knowledge of the Quran as yourself who..."
DeleteVery well, I am aware of my defiencies in understanding the Quran hence I try to enngage myself in many Quran ccentric online communities . MV remains the source I trust the most .
Recently a topic came up on Reddit regarding the dress code of Muslims . The discussion centered on Surah An-Nur, Ayah 31. One person put forward this interpretation , I quote
" The Quran (24:31) requires you to "use your garments to cover your breasts, and not display your adornments" – and adornments are your privates, which is why by the end of the same verse God tells women to "not strike with their feet to make apparent what they are hiding of their adornments", which essentially means to not walk in a way that draws attention to your but."
Upon cross checking his claim with the material posted on MV, I came across thhis from 2009,
"There's a difference between ornaments and adornment. Adornment refers to feminine aspects that are apparent and needn't be hidden like fingers, lower arms, feet and maybe few other such aspects. Then the Noble Quraan says: "And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment." Stamping one's feet loud while walking is a very obvious method for attracting attention."
Initially I wanted to reject his opinion but the view on MV quoted above seems fairly consistent to his. Only his definition of adornments are womens privates while MV is more general including any of feminine aspects that are attractive .
The thing is , the ayah also says the women can display her adornments to her household e.g. her husband, father , brother , nephew etc which seem to contradict the definition of adornments ... as in why would a woman want to display her feminine aspects to anybody but her husband ? even if they are her mahram. Modesty extend within our families too though not as stringent .
My personal view is , adornments refer to material things women use like .jewellary, bangles and anklets , fine clothing , make up and the such. So women can wear these lawfully but only openly within their households .
Would appreciate to know what is the most current view of MV on this ayah, jazakallahu khayran
Source :
Reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/iwdmo0/are_dresses_like_this_ok_according_to_quranic/g5zjyd0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
MV thread :
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=518.0
Please check the following topic @ our Quran Board of MV:
ReplyDelete"Women's dress code as in the Noble Quran"
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2274.msg11962#msg11962
Assalamualaikum wrt MV team,
ReplyDeleteI have a personal query that I hope to lay before your wise and learned selfs, in order to seek some sort of closure and enlightenment.
It is about my dear mother who has since passed away. She rarely prayed the 5 obligatory prayer, possibly due to ignorance more than outright rejection of Allahs commandments. She was born and grew up in India and was educated in the state schooling system where secular ideals formed the foundation of the syllabus. Though later on her life she did take up lots of self learning on Islam, my recollection of her behavior and speech makes me think she wasn't a person of faith though that knowledge belongs purely to Allah alone.
Now, I personally do not consider myself especially pious or pure, far from it. But the thought of my beloved mother, who gave birth to me and raised me and spent her wealth on me, having died a disbeliever or someone who failed to ensure her own salvation through patience and prayer, is quite disheartening as a Muslim. The Quran does not mince word about associating with disbelievers, we are to forsake them and not to pray for them even if they are family. So my question is, what is the course of action I should take with regards to the memories I have of my mother? Should I embrace my gut feelings about her, forsake her and dissasociate myself from her, post humously or is this a feeling brought by shaytaan as a way of leading me astray? As to dishonor my own mother after her death.
Of all her siblings, only her eldest sister keep to regular prayers and is serious about the deen. She and my mother were not on talking terms for most of her adult life up to the moment of her death. Her father was religious but possibly narcissistic as well, though only Allah knows the true extent of their faith.
The Quran is clear that women can be disbelievers just as men, examples being the wives of prophet Nuh a.s. and Lut a.s.. The story of prophet Nuh a.s. especially strikes a chord with me personally, as one of his son was also disbeliever. I pray to Allah swt to protect me of such a horrifying fate. In addition, the Quran is equally clear parents while by default should be shown love and affection and respect, must be dissasociated from and held as enemies if they choose to disbelief in Allah and His religion. Something I never did while my mother was alive, because I was raised as a hadithist who had to treat his mother 3 times better than his father, over every other persons in existence. Though I must admit I didnt do that bit much either.
Only after her passing I began to read the translation of the Quran and familiarize myself with the direct words of Allah and the numerous contradictions between them and hadith literature.
Anyways, it certainly would be therapeutic if I could be advised by any and each of MV team members regarding the personal dilemma I shared with you. I eagerly look forward to hearing from you, Allah bless.
Jazakallahu khayran
Walaikum As-salam. Sorry to learn that your late mother died a disbeliever. Indeed nothing can be more unfortunate than that. But it's not your responsibility. Every soul carries its own load and will be answerable for itself on the Day of Judgment. By the way, if anyone's parents are disbelievers, they don't need to 'forsake' them unless the parents try to force their believing children into disbelief. Otherwise, the children can meet them, help them with issues of daily life and of course continue to pray to Allah Almighty to grant them guidance. Now that your mother has transited into the permanent world, the question of your dissociation with her does not arise, in that, the physical separation is automatic. As for the emotional aspect, yes, you should not be praying for her forgiveness. However, if you simply desire to reminisce the cherished memories of your mother who took care of you as a parent, there's nothing wrong with that. But you do need to make sure you do not get influenced by the un-Islamic thoughts and ideas she nurtured during her earthly lifetime, and keep yourself very distant from her temperament and inclinations that displayed heedlessness of her responsibilities toward The Almighty. There's nothing more to be done in a situation such as this, it's now entirely up to Allah Almighty to judge and decide. What's important for you is to focus on yourself and your efforts to acquire the guidance of Allah. InshAllah, ameen. You will be accountable only for your deeds and intents, not hers.
Delete"of course continue to pray to Allah Almighty to grant them guidance"
DeleteBut Allah says,
مَا كَانَ لِلنَّبِيِّ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓاْ أَن يَسۡتَغۡفِرُواْ لِلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ وَلَوۡ كَانُوٓاْ أُوْلِي قُرۡبَىٰ مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمۡ أَنَّهُمۡ أَصۡحَٰبُ ٱلۡجَحِيمِ
(Mohammed Marmaduke William Pickthall)
It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin (to them) after it hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire.
-Surah At-Tawbah, Ayah 113
Also,
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓاْ إِذَا جَآءَكُمُ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنَٰتُ مُهَٰجِرَٰتٖ فَٱمۡتَحِنُوهُنَّۖ ٱللَّهُ أَعۡلَمُ بِإِيمَٰنِهِنَّۖ فَإِنۡ عَلِمۡتُمُوهُنَّ مُؤۡمِنَٰتٖ فَلَا تَرۡجِعُوهُنَّ إِلَى ٱلۡكُفَّارِۖ لَا هُنَّ حِلّٞ لَّهُمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحِلُّونَ لَهُنَّۖ وَءَاتُوهُم مَّآ أَنفَقُواْۚ وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيۡكُمۡ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ إِذَآ ءَاتَيۡتُمُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّۚ وَلَا تُمۡسِكُواْ بِعِصَمِ ٱلۡكَوَافِرِ وَسۡـَٔلُواْ مَآ أَنفَقۡتُمۡ وَلۡيَسۡـَٔلُواْ مَآ أَنفَقُواْۚ ذَٰلِكُمۡ حُكۡمُ ٱللَّهِ يَحۡكُمُ بَيۡنَكُمۡۖ وَٱللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٞ
(Mohammed Marmaduke William Pickthall)
O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is Best Aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for them (the disbelievers), nor are they (the disbelievers) lawful for them. And give them (the disbelievers) that which they have spent (upon them). And it is no sin for you to marry such women when ye have given them their dues. And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let them (the disbelievers) ask for that which they have spent. That is the judgment of Allah. He judgeth between you. Allah is Knower, Wise.
-Surah Al-Mumtahana, Ayah 10
In the Quran Allah says we shouldn't marry disbelievers or hold on to marriages with disbelievers. What is the threshold of disbelief for us to consider passing over a candidate for marriage, or divorce a person we are already married to?
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّبِيُّ إِذَا جَآءَكَ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنَٰتُ يُبَايِعۡنَكَ عَلَىٰٓ أَن لَّا يُشۡرِكۡنَ بِٱللَّهِ شَيۡـٔٗا وَلَا يَسۡرِقۡنَ وَلَا يَزۡنِينَ وَلَا يَقۡتُلۡنَ أَوۡلَٰدَهُنَّ وَلَا يَأۡتِينَ بِبُهۡتَٰنٖ يَفۡتَرِينَهُۥ بَيۡنَ أَيۡدِيهِنَّ وَأَرۡجُلِهِنَّ وَلَا يَعۡصِينَكَ فِي مَعۡرُوفٖ فَبَايِعۡهُنَّ وَٱسۡتَغۡفِرۡ لَهُنَّ ٱللَّهَۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٞ رَّحِيمٞ
(Mohammed Marmaduke William Pickthall)
O Prophet! If believing women come unto thee, taking oath of allegiance unto thee that they will ascribe no thing as partner unto Allah, and will neither steal nor commit adultery nor kill their children, nor produce any lie that they have devised between their hands and feet, nor disobey thee in what is right, then accept their allegiance and ask Allah to forgive them. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
-Surah Al-Mumtahana, Ayah 12
Based on the above verse, the threshold of disbelief may be reached by shirk, or stealing, or adultery, or killing of their children, or lying about the paternity of their children, or disobedience to Prophet pbuh righteous commands. Atleast from my interpretation of the verse. Hence any members of our friends or family engaging in these activities are, for all intents and purposes, disbelievers right? Where does not praying the 5 salah fall under? Im guessing its either under shirk or disobedience to the Prophet pbuh.
Lastly, the first verse I pasted above talked about divorcing disbelieving women. But what about women married to disbelieving men? Are they obligated to sever their marital ties as well?
Salam and thank you.
Walaikum As-Salaam.
Delete""In the Quran Allah says we shouldn't marry disbelievers or hold on to marriages with disbelievers. What is the threshold of disbelief for us to consider passing over a candidate for marriage, or divorce a person we are already married to?"
Basically, as I understand the Noble Quran, threshold for disbelief is rejection of Tawheed (Monotheism). Concerning V.60:10 (Surah Al-Mumtahanah), from what I understand this specifically refers to marriages of Muslims after migration to Medinah. By that time, Muslims were well aware of the basic principles of Islam according to which a believer (man or woman) should not marry a disbeliever. I am not sure if this also includes divorcing disbelieving spouses whom a believer married in pre-Islamic times, unless that disbelieving spouse is creating hurdles in the path of belief for their believing husband or wife. I presume this because I don't see the Quran categorically commanding every believer to divorce their disbelieving spouse whom they married prior to the Call of Islam. However, after the Call of Islam, this does become an important point to remember for all believers, even for those who were married in Arabia before the Revelation of the Quran, depending on what extent their disbelieving spouses interfered. If such an interference did (or does) exist, then yes, a believer will need to divorce their disbelieving spouse. And only Allah knows best.
"Based on the above verse, the threshold of disbelief may be reached by shirk, or stealing, or adultery, or killing of their children, or lying about the paternity of their children, or disobedience to Prophet pbuh righteous commands. Atleast from my interpretation of the verse."
Ref. V. 60:12, according to my understanding (and according to the standard rule) it's only shirk or denial of Allah Almighty that is categorized as disbelief. A person who steals or commits adultery or kills their children or kills anyone else or lies about their child's paternity or commits any other type of crime may still recognize the existence of The Almighty, The One and Only, in their hearts. Thus they aren't disbelievers nor guilty of shirk, but they are guilty of various practical transgressions. In other words, they maybe believers yet they don't care for their conduct. This would of course indicate that their character is weak or their iman is weak. Only Allah would know the exact status concerning the strength of their belief. It's a very subjective issue as everyone isn't the same at heart & mind. But no doubt, depending on the case, such practical violations amounting to crimes could render a person's iman futile on the Day of Judgment, if Allah Wills. It's entirely up to Him to Judge. That's why Allah repeatedly instructs in the Quran that in order to succeed in the Hereafter, we must believe and do good deeds. Belief and good conduct must stand together as the requirement for righteousness.
"Lastly, the first verse I pasted above talked about divorcing disbelieving women. But what about women married to disbelieving men? Are they obligated to sever their marital ties as well?"
In regard to ethics and principles, whatever rules have been confirmed in the Quran for men applies to both men and women. The term "mankind" that's often used in the Quran refers to both genders and stands for all humankind. After the Commandments of Allah reached humankind through His Final Message, He has surely instructed all believing men and women not to marry disbelievers (ref.2:221). Whether or not any man or woman married in pre-Islamic times are obligated to end marital ties with disbelieving spouses has already been discussed above.
"Where does not praying the 5 salah fall under? Im guessing its either under shirk or disobedience to the Prophet pbuh."
DeleteAgain, it's a subjective issue and I cannot confirm by generalizing that it can be categorized as 'shirk,' though yes, it could be described as an approach not in conformity with the Prophet's (pbuh) righteous lifestyle.
For example, if you focus on Verse 29:45 of Surah Ankabut:
"Indeed! worship preserves from lewdness and iniquity, but verily remembrance of Allah is more important. And Allah knows what you do." 29:45.
This is another one of those very practical and wonderful Verses of the Noble Quran with a lot of depth, if you reflect upon it. As conveyed in this Verse, salat (if performed with sincerity & concentration) is an excellent way to stay on the Halal path. But if someone isn't able to manage the time to be regular in prayer, yet if that person is sincere toward Allah Almighty and remembers Allah constantly in the course of their daily life is perhaps appreciated by Him still more. It's a clear evidence of that person's firm commitment to Allah, in that, absence of prayer doesn't weaken their Faith in Him. Constant remembrance of Allah Almighty is also highlighted in V.3:191. Verse 29:45 may also be an allusion to people who sometimes offer prayer heedlessly like a ritual and thus they do not implement the values of prayer in their daily life. This aspect too is underscored in Verses 107:4-7. Better than this is a person who may not be regular in prayer but they do sincerely have Allah in their hearts all the time and thus observe the rules of behavior as instructed by Him. No doubt, the best are those who are regular in prayer and also constantly remember Allah.
As explained by Maududi: "Allah's remembrance is not restricted to salat only, but it's a much wider sphere. When a man observes a fast, or pays the Zakat or performs any righteous act with the remembrance of Allah, the righteousness emanates from them. Likewise, with the thought of Allah when a person refrains from an evil act (even if the opportunity exists), it's the result of Allah's remembrance. Thus, the remembrance of Allah affects the entire life of a believer."
Dear sr. Zaynab,
Delete"because I don't see the Quran categorically commanding every believer to divorce their disbelieving spouse whom they married prior to the Call of Islam."
Isn't part of verse 10 of sura Mumtahanah "And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let them (the disbelievers) ask for that which they have spent" saying exactly that though? Hold not the ties mean to divorce imho.
But this isn't something oppressive at all like some other forms of divorce. During the times of the revelation of the verse, being a disbeliever would be conformatory to the predominant status quo with many privileges, while being a believer would mean bearing risks of a hard life and alienation from family and society. I believe its basically a case of you could go and live with the privileges from supporting the pagan social order unimpeded, while I continue my struggle for monotheism among my brethren in faith.
" 'because I don't see the Quran categorically commanding every believer to divorce their disbelieving spouse whom they married prior to the Call of Islam.'
DeleteIsn't part of verse 10 of sura Mumtahanah "And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let them (the disbelievers) ask for that which they have spent" saying exactly that though? Hold not the ties mean to divorce imho."
Yes, you're right, it does mean to divorce disbelieving wives. What I meant was the historical background of this entire Surah, Al-Mumtahanah (which means "she who is to be examined"), is about believing women fleeing from Makkah and arriving in Medinah for refuge from persecution. There was also always the possibility that some of those women were not genuine, that is, not believers but using Faith as an excuse to live in Medinah for various other reasons. They could create obstacles for believing husbands in a very crucial era. In my opinion the direct reference is to that category of wives. However, like I said, disbelieving spouses as partners of believing spouses is never a good idea. And if the disbelieving wife or husband in unable to understand their believing spouses, then divorce would be the best way out for both in all circumstances.
As we know, the Quran makes it clear that we're all responsible for our own deeds and intent. If someone has a wife or a husband who is not attached to Faith but does respect and understand their spouse who is grounded in Faith, then I don't know of any Quranic Verses which makes divorce mandatory. Just as among siblings some maybe believing, some not. In some families parents maybe believing, not their children. In other families, the opposite, parents or one of the parents maybe be disbelieving but their daughter or son is a believer. In all such cases the believing members of the family (in normal circumstances) aren't obligated to sever ties with the non-believing or secular minded members of the family unless the non-believing ones adopt an oppressive, intrusive or abusive attitude. And of course, the believing members must be very careful not to get swayed by their non-believing families. Obviously it's the same in regard to one's spouse.
Furthermore for the purpose of a relevant discourse, as we read our History, our beloved Prophet's (pbuh) father passed away sometime before his birth. His mother passed when he was still a baby. Subsequently he was raised by his grandfather, Abdul Muttalib. When he died and the Prophet (pbuh) was still very young, he was taken by his uncle, Abu Talib, who lived for about 10 years after the Prophethood was bestowed on his nephew (pbuh). Reportedly, though there isn't any information of Abu Talib officially embracing Islam, he was understanding of the Prophet's (pbuh) mission and also helped to protect him from Makkan opposition which was already getting fierce during the uncle's lifetime. According to all historical reports, the Prophet (pbuh) respected his uncle, but firmly continued his mission despite his uncle not embracing Islam and neither did his uncle interfere with his nephew's mission. There is no mention in the Quran, alluding to Abu Talib, that the Prophet (pbuh) should sever ties with him as a relative. But if Abu Talib was hostile, then it would be a very different story.
DeleteAll very true sister.
But I must say that the historical actions of the prophet pbuh is not the same as the actual written commandments of Allah in terms of deserving our absolute obedience. We know that whilst the prophet pbuh was indeed exceedingly loving and loyal towards his uncle, Abu Talib, he was still commanded against praying for him after his death. Without such commandments...we would rationally think that the prophet pbuh would have made such prayers out of his deep sense of love and compassion for his uncle. What I'm trying to say is...what may be rational and reasonable to us may not be in line with what is allowed by Allah. Hence, when Allah commanded believing men not to hold on to marital ties with disbelieving wives...I would be inclined to take it at face value, even if that disbelieving wife is a beloved spouse of mine. My love and affection is nothing to the wisdom and love of Allah towards the affairs of His creations. This is especially relevant to Muslims in the West or those in non-Muslim countries where there is constant pressure and temptation to sellout to the kuffar in power in order ot gain access to worldly privileges. If our wives choose to lean towards the kuffar instead of Allah and His religion, I feel divorce is no longer just an option but obligatory.
As for relatives and family, I believe this verse summarizes it clearly. If they are quiet and private disbelievers then we should maintain loving and peaceful ties...but if they are militant in their disbelief, we ought to distance ourselves accordingly. Everyone is open to judge what is the limit of such disbelief for themselves.
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لَا تَتَّخِذُوٓاْ ءَابَآءَكُمۡ وَإِخۡوَٰنَكُمۡ أَوۡلِيَآءَ إِنِ ٱسۡتَحَبُّواْ ٱلۡكُفۡرَ عَلَى ٱلۡإِيمَٰنِۚ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمۡ فَأُوْلَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّٰلِمُونَ
(Mohammed Marmaduke William Pickthall)
O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.
-Surah At-Tawbah, Ayah 23
Kind regards,
To assume that without the Commandment of Allah Almighty the Prophet (pbuh) would have made du'a for Abu Talib is an hypothetical statement. It's like wondering what would have been actions of the Prophet (pbuh) if Allah Almighty hadn't chosen him as His Final Messenger. Totally unnecessary thoughts.
DeleteThe point is, while trying to understand Quranic Verses, we need to keep in mind the context of those Verses, in some cases the historical background of the Surah and the general Quranic principles & instructions. Historical background of Surah Al-Mumtahanah is early era of Medinah. Verses quoted are focused on this specific situation. Nonetheless, that situation gives us a law for normal situations too, if the need arises. So we have to rationally balance our explication based on all Quranic facts.
Now please read carefully:
Disbelief has various grades. If someone's wife or husband is an outright kaffir, then yes, it's highly unlikely for them to understand their believing spouse, and divorce would be the only option. Neither would a believing spouse ever feel comfortable getting married to a hardcore kaffir. That's why I said it's never a good idea for a believer to take a disbelieving spouse (on the assumption that one is planning a marriage with the knowledge that the future spouse is a devout polytheist or devout atheist or an agnostic). In the case of Abu Talib, he was a traditional polytheist and also the Prophet's (pbuh) uncle as well as Imam Ali's father (and Imam Ali too was firm believer), yet Abu Talib reportedly never did anything to oppose or harm either the Prophet (pbuh) nor his son, Ali. On the contrary he protected the Prophet (pbuh) during in Makkah according to all reports. And there are no reports of either Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) nor Imam Ali severing ties with him on account of his disbelief because his conduct towards his nephew and son was loving and cooperative. These are facts and it's not in my power to change history to appease anyone. The final decision on all such matters is for Allah Almighty. My point here is simply that attitude does matter. For this reason also, Allah grants permission to believers to fight those disbelievers who are hostile, not those who aren't hurting us. This aspect is also clarified in Surah Al-Mumtahanah, Verses 8 & 9.
Also, there can be spouses who aren't into polytheism nor atheism but simply very secular, not particular about prayers or fasting etc. but at the same time respectful of the worship of believers and not hostile nor inclined to making trouble in matters of Faith. Whether or not you want to continue your marriage with such a spouse is your personal decision. As long as you have your Faith intact, you may not have anything to worry about. But if the incompatibility between you and your spouse worries you or makes you uneasy, you may want to quit that marriage. That's fine. Nonetheless, if someone else in a similar situation decides not to divorce such a spouse and himself remains a righteous Muslim, then we shouldn't pass judgments either. Let Allah Almighty be the Judge.
DeleteUnfortunately, in most such cases where one spouse is a disbeliever and other is a believer, the believing spouse in the course of time often gets lukewarm or deviated. That's tragic for the soul of that person, and thus the basic Quranic rule on marriage that believers must wed believers. However, it's a subjective issue and Allah is best aware of that. So there's no point in getting fixated on wide scale generalizations with black & white readings with a single standard for judging all married couples. Everyone has a different story, Allah is Watching and He will decide every case. Nothing escapes Him.
"As for relatives and family, I believe this verse summarizes it clearly. If they are quiet and private disbelievers then we should maintain loving and peaceful ties...but if they are militant in their disbelief, we ought to distance ourselves accordingly."
That's exactly what I said in my earlier comment. You're not reading my contents carefully. And I also said, same applies to spouse who too is family. Verse 23 of Surah At-Taubah about family members taking pleasure in disbelief implies to those who are apparently committed to the ideology of disbelief playing a central role in their lives and with such folks believers should NOT be associating. They can never have cordial feelings towards believers nor can there be amicable relations. If your brother or sister of wife or mother or father or daughter or son belongs to this category, you will have to keep away from them and in the case of the wife, divorce would be the only option.
"Everyone is open to judge what is the limit of such disbelief for themselves."
Probably yes. But the absence of Monotheism (Tawheed) doesn't require discernment to categorize that person as a kaffir. The Quran has confirmed that Tawheed is the essence of Faith without which a person cannot acquire His Mercy on the Day of Judgment. The decisive point regarding our earthly relations (or the extent of our earthly relations) with such people is their attitude and conduct towards us.
I am closing this topic as it's been fully discussed. We normally don't take lengthy debate-like discussions like these here as this blog window is only for introductions and short Q&A. We're allowing some of your comments only to assist you with your queries.
Quoting Hasium :-
Delete"But I must say that the historical actions of the prophet pbuh is not the same as the actual written commandments of Allah in terms of deserving our absolute obedience."
Very ignorant thing to say. That's like accusing the Prophet SAW of disobeying The Almighty. The purpose of the Prophet's assignment of messengership was to deliver and obey the commandments of Allah's (The Greatest) Revelations. That's the reason a lot of Ahadith aren't acceptable because they contradict the principles of the Qur'an and we know the Final Messenger (or any of previous messengers) would never do that.
Secondly, I don't know how you are interpreting the Quran. Have you at all read the Quran in full with a reliable translation in a language you follow and made a note in writing to remember its ethics and scruples of daily life ? The Commandments of The Almighty Allah 'deserves our absolute obedience' with the help of our rational perception by analysing a variety of life situations, and many of those analysis are done by the Quran itself. If a situation differs from the benchmark occurrence within a certain sphere of life, we inspect and evaluate it to the maximum and with the right intent with references to Quranic contents on that issue. That makes it a lot more possible for us to arrive at a conclusion becoming of a believer as would be acceptable in the Sight of Almighty Allah. You just can't read every Verse and then impulsively jump on to its par value without retrieving its Quranic backdrop to prioritize the rules within the situation you are analysing. But it looks you are not pushed even to focus on the history of Surah 60. This is the surest way to misinterpret the Quran, and this is exactly what the Islamophobes are doing. They pick a Verse and drag words out of context. For example, if a Verse says to attack the disbelievers, they don't bother to survey the preceding nor following Verses which illuminates bright as ever that we are to attack the disbelievers only if they attack us first or are planning to attack us. Your hasty perspective has a similar trend and it can be tough talking to such ones. I've been reading your lack of logic since the past few weeks since you began coming here. I respect the patience of MV.
To sr. Zaynab,
DeleteThank you so very much for taking precious time from your day to go through my thoughts and ideas and correcting them based on a sound understanding of the Quran, which isn't something that is common both in real life or online...so to get your feedback for essentially free of charge is surely an excellent gift from my position. May Allah bless you for your patience and dedication in spreading knowledge and wisdom, and may Allah open my heart and mind to accept and embrace them wholly. Ameen.
To sr. Khansa,
I do agree with many of your points. We need to have a thorough understanding of the Quran as a whole in order to correctly perceive the details and meaning tought within each of it's many verses. But more importantly we need to practice sincerely whatever we understand from the Quran, as we progressively learn from it. Instead of waiting for the full understanding to manifest itself within us before praying our first salah, or showing kindness to parents and kin. Do you agree?
I feel much of my haste stems from trying to unlearn my hadith based understanding of Islamic doctrines, instead of the reality of our existence in this dunya. What seemed to be correct and righteous when we act based on hadith now is clearly apparent as ignorant and un-Islamic based on the Quran. So the nafs urges against accepting the understanding based on Quran in order to preserve it's unearned and underserved sense of self. I know for some people the reading the Quran and understanding it presents a welcomed relief and a long awaited enlightenment...but for me it's mostly an admonishment. So that may be a reason for my impulsiveness in interpretation of some verses of Quran.
Wish you the best and may Allah bring us all closer to Him and His mercy in dunya and akhirah, and grant us entry into His Jannah. Ameen.
As we all know, compliance with the Quran is the essence of Islam. This makes it very important that before practicing the dictates of the Verses we read, we try to understand them as best as we can. A lot of that understanding can be acquired from the Quran itself by studying & reflecting on supporting Verses that deal with the same issue as the initial Verse (or Verses) of our focus. Whether you're trying to learn or unlearn the sources outside the Quran, if you constantly allow that to overly dominate your mind while studying the Quran, it would cause interference (one way or another) and you could either go wrong or end up confused.
DeleteSecondly, yes hadith is man-written, bulk of which does not come from Prophet Muhammad (saw). At the same time there are also certain ahadith the principles or values of which are consistent with Quranic principles (even if the Prophet [saw] didn't say them in that many words). Therefor I would say we should accept those ahadith which conform with the Quran. Even if we don't want to accept them as sayings of the Prophet [saw] for lack of proof, we can still accept them as wise teachings on Islam. After all, whatever is consistent with the contents of the Quran must be accepted no matter who said it, and whatever is not consistent must be ignored no matter who said it. And we know the Prophet would never say or advise anything not consistent with the Quran.
Briefly my advise; study every Verse with a much wider focus on other Verses as well wherever required, and don't get too preoccupied with "unlearning" (nor learning) the hadith. That could eat up on one's rational perspective in all spheres and on the long run could become an obstacle in one's correct learning of the Quran.
Dear sister Khansa
Delete"At the same time there are also certain ahadith the principles or values of which are consistent with Quranic principles (even if the Prophet [saw] didn't say them in that many words). Therefor I would say we should accept those ahadith which conform with the Quran. "
Quite true sister, adopting a wholesale hostile attitude to hadith can lead to problematic readings of the Quran, in my honest view. For example, if you followed my earlier discussions here...there were a few disagreements arising on the correct interpretation of the Quranic verses. I feel some of these disagreements are rooted not in differences of interpretation, but due to varying level of hostility towards hadith. In the effort of proving hadith wrong, bias is introduced when studying the Quran. As such, I believe having a neutral and calm mindset is imperative when we study the Quran as to not allow our biases and emotions to color our understanding.
Example of hadith rooted bias:
The verse of Quran endorses cutting of hands of thieves, male or female.
Anti hadith reader: Quran strongly admonishes theft and violation of rights to personal property. Thieves are therefore liable to strong but flexible punishment as deterrent. Cutting off hands is a metaphor.
Pro hadith reader:
Quran strongly admonishes theft and endorses the state or those in power to inflict amputation of hands on those who are caught stealing, as a deterrent. Hands are to be literally separated from the body by cutting.
Because there are hadith claiming that the Prophet pbuh understood this verse as referring to physical amputation of hands, instead of metaphor of restricting the means of theft by legal means. My view...it's obviously a metaphor but if you believe in hadith, then there can be only one possible interpretation which is to literally cut off hands of thieves.
Second example;
Anti-hadith reader:
The prophet pbuh only had a maximum of 4 wives at a time because Quran legislates a maximum amount of 4 wives for able Muslim men.
Pro-hadith reader:
The prophet pbuh had more than 4 wives, therefore the legislation of maximum of 4 wives is not Quranic but based on in correct interpretation of the verse.
Personally I don't know how many wives the prophet pbuh had and I also don't believe in hadith. But I feel it's not logical to use our opposition to hadith to force an interpretation of the Quran, and introduce new limits of halal and haram that are not sanctioned by Allah. There are no verses in the Quran which says we have a maximum amount or if the prophet pbuh only married only four people. So yeah, it's a bit complicated in that regard.
Hoping to hear what you think, assalamualaikum wrt.
Regards,
Salam again, my dear friends of MV.
ReplyDeleteIn Islamic law, based upon the Quran only, rightful custody of children of divorced couples by default goes to the father or fathers family right?
Under mutual consultation and consent, the mother may have full or limited custody, but Islam recognizes the natural right of children to be raised among their clan and for fathers to raise their children first and foremost.
This is as opposed to Western law which presupposes a 50:50 right of custody for the mother and father, which is of course based on flawed human reasoning and not the Quran nor science.
Do you agree?
Kind regards,
Walaikum As-Salam. On this the Quran has given very basic guidelines. As a personal issue with a wide range of differing situations, it remains subjective to be decided with the help basic Quranic guidelines & principles and one's own judgment with adherence to Halal concepts.
DeleteThe only Verses of the Quran that speak on child custody are 2:233 and 65:6 &7 as follows:
"Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; (that is) for those who wish to complete the suckling. The duty of feeding and clothing nursing mothers in a seemly manner is upon the father of the child. No-one should be charged beyond his capacity. A mother should not be made to suffer because of her child, nor should he to whom the child is born (be made to suffer) because of his child. And on the (father's) heir is incumbent the like of that (which was incumbent on the father). If they desire to wean the child by mutual consent and (after) consultation, it is no sin for them; and if you wish to give your children out to nurse, it is no sin for you, provide that you pay what is due from you in kindness. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is Seer of what you do." (2:233).
In a nutshell, Verse 2:233 clarifies that after divorce an infant child stays with the mother and the father must financially support the child in every way for at least 2 yrs according to his financial means. He shouldn't grudge whatever he can afford nor should the mother be denied her needs nor should the father be pressured beyond his means.
"Lodge them where you dwell, according to your wealth, and harass them not so as to straighten life for them. And if they are with child, then spend for them till they bring forth their burden. Then, if they give suck for you, give them their due payment and consult together in kindness; but if ye make difficulties for one another, then let some other woman give suck for him (the father of the child)." (65:6).
"Let him who hath abundance spend of his abundance, and he whose provision is measured, let him spend of that which Allah hath given him. Allah asks naught of any soul save that which He hath given it. Allah will vouchsafe, after hardship, ease." (65:7).
Verses 65:6-7 are pretty much self explanatory. These 2 Verses basically clarify the same broad aspects as defined in V.2:233.
Beyond the points stated in the above Verses, other child custody laws in the Muslim society come either from jurists or fatwas and few from hadith sources. Thus, you could find varying opinions on several specific cases.
From whatever I know, according to our Muslim jurists custody of a minor child belongs to the mother by default whether of a son or a daughter. That's the standard approach. Generally mothers are viewed as more compassionate and patient. They are supposed to have more knowledge and time to raise young children. There are only 2 preconditions. First, she should not re-marry during the period she's raising the children. Secondly, she must be mentally sane and of good character with a sense of responsibility. Father is still considered as the guardian of the child or children since he is the one who still carries the responsibility of providing for his young children - food, clothing, education, medical treatment and whatever else needed. As children grow older, jurists have more than one opinion about custody and it depends on the families what path they decide to choose. According to some jurists custody of child must be given to father when a male child is over 2 yrs. Others have opined 7 yrs. In case of a female child some say custody should be to the father after 7 yrs, others say after puberty. All these matters are expected to be decided in an Islamic court. Focus is squarely on the best interest of the child. These are not Quranic commandments and thus parents have the right to decide mutually in the best interest of the child.
Salam sister Heba,
DeleteI have gone through your highly detailed and comprehensive thoughts on the matter, and would like to give a few feedback on them based on my understanding of Islam from the Quran.
"As a personal issue with a wide range of differing situations, it remains subjective to be decided "
I wish the above was truly the case, but unfortunately in current times this is far from being a personal issue, with the overarching power and influence of the state onto our private affairs. Divorces and custody rights nowadays must be settled in court representing the state or country of residence both in the West and in the East. In so called Islamic countries the courts dealing with this issue may be labelled as Sharia court but in practice they are usually highly lacking in the Islamic code brought by the Quran.
"after divorce an infant child stays with the mother and the father must financially support the child in every way for at least 2 yrs according to his financial means."
I do not believe this is the case. The child doesn't have to stay with the mother by default but only nursed for two years and even then only if the mother consents to fulfilling her nursing obligations under the wishes of the father. She can equally relinquish her obligations without blame, through consultation with the father. The father is free to hire wetnurses for his child as an alternative, but he must pay them fair wages according to the local economic circumstances. Ultimately its the fathers call to make...not the mothers.
Verses 65:6-7 further solidify the fact that its incumbent only on the father of the child in deciding the manner of nursing of newborn. The lodging part refers to housing pregnant ex-wifes in the same home as the father until labor. After which the father is free to either negotiate nursing service from the birth mother, or seek it from other women if conflict arise between him and his ex-wife. Again, the call is for the father to make, for the wellbeing of his child. The verse is clear the custody of child belongs 100% to the father.
"Generally mothers are viewed as more compassionate and patient. They are supposed to have more knowledge and time to raise young children. "
This is exactly the kind of flawed extra-Quranic assumptions I mentioned in my original comment. Such reasoning underpins most family court decisions in the West, and increasingly is becoming the same for so called sharia courts in Islamic countries. The Quran through the 3 verses we discussed, is clear any child born to a believing father belongs only to him and his family, even if the mother is also a loving and kind hearted believer. Which also scientically and logically the most rational stance. Plus, the assumption falls apart just by going through multitudes of news reports documenting unspeakable abuses of their children by their mother, some leading to death...while many leads to life long trauma.
Allah knows best.
Kind regards,
Salam MV team,
ReplyDeleteRE: Congregational and Friday prayers
وَأَقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتُواْ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَٱرۡكَعُواْ مَعَ ٱلرَّٰكِعِينَ
(Dr. Mustafa Khattab)
Establish prayer, pay alms-tax, and bow down with those who bow down.
-Surah Al-Baqarah, Ayah 43
The last part of the above verse seem to indicate that congregational prayer, regardless of the size of attendees, is obligatory in Islam while praying alone at work or home is something that is not specifically mentioned anywhere in Quran but is widespread in hadith literature. So would it be correct to conclude that provision to pray alone is something extra-Quranic? Atleast when it comes to the obligatory prayers?
Secondly,
A member of MV perceptively said the day of Jumaah in the Quran is simply a day of congregation, not particular a day in a calendar like Friday is today. So, would this mean Muslims of every locality and community has freedom to elect a day for their own day of congregration? And this day is something that is not fixed and can be changed according to the specific needs of said community?
Thank you and kind regards,
Walaykum As-Salam. While I am sure V.2:43 implies to sajood in all obligatory salah and it can also include sajood outside salah based on love and respect for Allah, I do not think it specifically implies to congregational prayer. Rather it includes congregational prayer as well as prayer offered individually. No doubt visiting the masjid for prayer is a very positive gesture in accordance with the overall precepts of the Noble Quran. But Allah Almighty certainly does not say anywhere in His Final Message that salah must be offered in congregation only. The easy-to-understand Quranic concept of Monotheism "Unto Allah belong the East and the West, and whithersoever you turn, there is Allah's Countenance. Indeed! Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing." (2:115) conveys loud and clear that Allah is everywhere, He knows everything and can watch and hear us no matter where we are. Offering salah alone is for sure not extra-Quranic. Of course it's always a very positive practice to attend the masjid whenever possible for prayers, especially for fard rakahs. But it's not a necessity. What is truly important during salah (and at all times) is the sincerity of our hearts and our devotion to Him alone rather than the location of salah. It's only the obligatory Jum'aah salah which must be offered in congregation because it has a specific purpose, that is, to give believers of every neighborhood the opportunity to meet, stay in touch and offer prayers together once a week at a common venue. And indeed the masjid is the best common venue for a believer in normal times.
DeleteIn regard to your second question .. no, Muslims of different localities, neighborhoods and countries do not have the entitlement to select their own day of congregation. The day of congregation (congregational prayer) is Jum'aah. Basically the confusion arises by incorrectly adjusting Jum'aah of the Islamic weekday to correspond with Friday of the Christian weekday. Both have very different origins and purposes. If accurately analyzed by not synchronizing Islamic week days (or their titles) with Christian week days, Jum'aah is the 6th day of the Islamic week starting from Al-Ahad the first day. In pre-Islamic era Jum'aah was called "Arouba." Reportedly it was supposed to be the 'day of rest' and family get-togethers. The commandment and culture of congregation prayers began with the Monotheistic values of the Quran, and thus we can be pretty much certain that "Arouba" got the name Jum'aah (meaning congregation) after the Prophet's (pbuh) migration to Medinah. For a detailed elucidation of this aspect to grasp a clearer understanding of the answer of your query, I would request you to read the 5th and 8th posts by Sister Heba in MV thread titled Day of Jummah and Jummah Prayer @ the following link:http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2978.msg16664#msg16664
Really enlightening posts, thank you for these. So does the Islamic day sync perfectly with the Christian day to the effect that we can simply substitute in our days within the Christian calendar system? Like, did Jumaah prayers during the times of the Prophet pbuh also took place on Friday of the Christian calender?
DeleteAnd I agree fully with your explanations of praying alone or in congregration being allowed in the Quran. What matters is the state of our heart and mind during prayer, but definitely being part of the (right) congregation will have a positive effect on those metrics, imho.
وَأَقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتُواْ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَٱرۡكَعُواْ مَعَ ٱلرَّٰكِعِينَ
Delete(Dr. Mustafa Khattab)
"Establish prayer, pay alms-tax, and bow down with those who bow down."
-Surah Al-Baqarah, Ayah 43
"bow down with those who bow down" in V.2:43 refers to the universal community of believers who offer the Monotheistic salah, whether in congregation or individually. I'm quite sure of that.
" .... we can simply substitute in our days within the Christian calendar system?"
In my opinion it would not be appropriate to simply substitute our Islamic week days with Christian week days. Furthermore, as the MV link explains, and if you observe the charts in that post, it depends which Islamic day we take as the first day of the week. The traditional Islamic week calendar runs as follows: Al-Sabt, Al-Ahad, Al-Lithnayn, As-Thulatha, Al-Arba, Al-Khamis and Al-Jumm'ah. That makes Jumm'ah the 7th day in the Islamic weekly calendar. Al-Sabt is likely a reference to the Jewish rest day of Sabbath which in the Christian/Jewish calendar is same as Saturday. So, if Al-Sabt is made to coincide with Saturday, then in the serial order of the Christian/Jewish calendar, obviously Friday will coincide with Jumm'aah as 7th day of the week. However, many observers opine that back in the Prophet's (pbuh) time, Al-Ahad was the first day of the week as suggested by the definition of the term "Ahad" which means "One" and here it alludes to 'first.' In this case Jumm'ah will be the 6th day of the Islamic week. I personally think this is the correct arrangement. Traditionally according to Gregorian (Christian) calendar, Monday is the first day of the week but Christian countries take Sunday as the first. Thus according to the Christain calendar Friday would either be 5th or 6th day of the week, respectively. Please note, I'm referring to the Christian Friday, not the Islamic Jumm'ah. There's a big difference between the ideology of the two. It's far more appropriate to view the Islamic and Christian calendars independently rather than trying to synchronize them. If you check their history, the names of the weeks in the Christian calendar have deeply pagan roots.
"Like, did Jumaah prayers during the times of the Prophet pbuh also took place on Friday of the Christian calender?"
What we do know for sure is that the congregation prayer was held on the day of Jumm'ah during the Prophet's (pbuh) time. This day was formerly, in pre-Islamic days, was known as 'Arouba' in the Arabian peninsula. I'm really not sure of the arrangement of the Christian week calendar in those days to confirm whether or not it coincided with Jumm'ah.
Regarding praying alone, below is verse that refers to Zakariya a.s. doing so, though I feel this is more of a making of dua and not performing salah. Please correct me if I misunderstood.
Delete"And the angels called to him as *he stood praying in the sanctuary*: Allah giveth thee glad tidings of (a son whose name is) John, (who cometh) to confirm a word from Allah lordly, chaste, a prophet of the righteous."
In the same surah,
يَـٰمَرْيَمُ ٱقْنُتِى لِرَبِّكِ وَٱسْجُدِى وَٱرْكَعِى مَعَ ٱلرَّٰكِعِينَ
O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship).
- Pickthall (Quran 3:43)
It does seem the verse is simply saying to live and worship Allah alongside other believers in a more broad sense, not just in salah. Though praying salah in a congregation would nevertheless be perfectly fitting of the command as well.
Kind regards,
Salam MV team,
ReplyDeleteSister Zainab in the forum pages of MV, correctly stated that marriages without paying the bride her due dowry amounts to zina.
I am in agreement of this since the Quran is crystal clear on this issue.
My query is, can women voluntarily forego dowry entirely and marry without receiving it and not be part of zina? Some women in my community, under the reasoning of being kind, generous and selfless, sometimes agree to marry without any dowry...not even a small one. A few would even go as far as lending her own money to the groom, for him to use as a dowry in order to fulfill the legal requirements. On the surface I see this as a positive thing that promotes marriage and chaste behavior.
However, I feel since the commandment of paying dowry comes from Allah, I question if women actually have any capacity to overrule it in Islamic law? On the more extreme end of reasoning, wouldn't this be an invitation to commit zina, knowingly or otherwise?
Looking forward to hear your views on this, assalamualaikum wrt.
As-Salam Alaykum
ReplyDelete"Regarding praying alone, below is verse that refers to Zakariya a.s. doing so, though I feel this is more of a making of dua and not performing salah. Please correct me if I misunderstood."
It's difficult to confirm. However in my humble opinion it refers to regular prayer rather than supplication which we make at the end of prayer. As V.3:38 states that Zakariya, who was Virgin Maryam's guardian, did make dua to The Almighty to grant him pious offspring or descendants. The quoted Verse 3:39 mentions of Zakariya praying in the prayer chamber when he beheld the angels giving him the good news. The word yuṣallī means 'praying' which is a verb. The noun is al-ṣalata which means 'prayer,' al-miḥ'rābi which is translated as 'chamber' means prayer chamber. So, the style in which the Verse is constructed makes me feel that Zakarya was offering salat.
As we all would know, there's no basic difference in the procedure between praying alone or with congregation. As discussed before in regard to another Verse, in my opinion Verse 3:43 is also commanding Virgin Maryam to be among the believers of Monotheism who worship Allah only..
Wa alaikum salam wrt brother,
DeleteI am inclined to agree with your interpretation. The scene set by Allah through the first verse does indeed seem to present Zakariya a.s. as performing salah and not making dua in the solitude of the prayer room. Both the English translation "stood praying " and the original Arabic word "yusalli" clearly signify salah not dua. Hence praying alone IMO is indeed very much referred to in the Quran, masha Allah.
Thank you for clearing up my doubts, jazakallahu khair.
Kind regards,
Salam MV team,
ReplyDeleteRE: 'Stage between towns' - Surah Saba
As I was reading through a translation of this particular section of Sura Saba, I developed an understanding that I wanted to share with members of MV.
Sister Zaynab correctly perceived the gist of the section is the ingratitude of the people of Saba. Who were blessed with a beautiful and bountiful home country, and access to reliable, safe, easy and convenient trade route for commerce.
However, one minor difference that I hold is the reason for them calling to Allah for a longer stage between they journey from town to town as they move along their trade route. It's simply an expression of ingratitude, or kufr through wanting it harder for themselves to satisfy their nafs rather than be humble and happily embrace the blessings of Allah. It shows that its not proper for us to challenge the blessings Allah decided to bestow upon us, regardless how big or small they may seem to us.
It wasn't a case of them asking for more blessings as Sr. Zaynab opined (which IMO shouldn't be a bad thing anyhow ). It's actually them feeling too good for Allah's blessings and essentially asking to pay full price when Allah generously gave them a discount. How rude and conceited of them, nauzibillah.
May it be of benefit to all,
Kind regards,
In this context, asking for more blessings obviously implies ingratitude, what else?
DeleteSalam sr. Ruhi,
DeleteUpon reading a commentary on the verse, some scholars opine that the request of the Sabaeans were based on violent greed and self-centeredness. By cutting off the various towns and peoples in their trade route, they wanted increase their share of trade volume, and form a monopoly. Which also makes sense to me and reminiscent of past and present trade practices of many rich countries of the West esp the USA.
IMO, having one long journey is usually less preferable than having the option of multiple stops for rest and refresh because its more demanding and require greater amount of planning and preparation. So I fail to see how can longer spans between towns can be a blessing for the Sabaeans.
Kind regards,
Salam again brother hassum. That bit you suggested about Sabaeans could be true. I haven't done much detailed study on the history of Sabaeans so I'm not in the best position to confirm. But it may well be correct. And only Allah knows best.
Delete"IMO, having one long journey is usually less preferable than having the option of multiple stops for rest and refresh because its more demanding and require greater amount of planning and preparation. So I fail to see how can longer spans between towns can be a blessing for the Sabaeans."
Regarding the above point, making the stage longer between journeys doesn't literally imply longer stretches of roads. It refers to availability of more resources for travelers stopping for several hours or overnight on the stops along those long stretches of roads .. resources such as eateries, rest houses, small marketplaces selling commodity wares, accessibility of potable water which implies presence of wells (the only way for procuring potable water in those times) and also availability of spaces & resources for overnight rest & food for animals used for traveling viz. horses, camels, donkeys. So, if there are several stops with essential amenities on a certain journey, obviously these frequent stops will make the total time of the journey longer on account of that much time consumed on the stops. Nonetheless, it's preferable as it would be far more convenient and comfortable for travelers and their horses & camels. If you check MV thread on this topic, these points are discussed there. http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4188.0
Quoting Sister Heba on that MV thread:
" .... the people wanted more comforts to be built for their convenience along the travelers roads so that travelers could stopover more frequently and for longer duration. Obviously this would increase the traveling time and thus make the wayfaring longer. In my opinion this is what is meant by making the stage of the journey longer. But only Allah knows best."
Salam br. Najaf,
DeleteI did read the thread previously but since my translation referred to the request as a matter of distance not of time, I thought I to give an alternative interpretation to the ones already posted in MV.
Asking Allah for more amenities and luxuries placed along their route over what is already a generous and convenient setting by Him for the traders does sound quite ungrateful. But surely not to the point of being liable for divine punishment they received according to the verse?
This sounds too extreme to me. Even Pharaoh at the height of his tyranny, killing male Israelite newborns enmasse, was shown mercy by Allah. Only after all the messages of Prophet Musa a.s and signs of Allahs wrath were continously denied, he and his army were destroyed. Your thoughts?
Kind regards,
What sort of 'punishment' do you interpret they received according to the Verse. Kindly quote that Verse.
DeleteHe's again quite confused, Sister Ruhi.
DeleteBrother hassium, salam. Verses in Surah 34 that are about the people of Saba are from 15 to 21. Sabaeans weren't punished overnight simply for asking Allah for more blessings. They adopted the path of disobedience and ingratitude instead of obedience and gratefulness for decades or maybe centuries. Saba was the ancient name of a place in southern Arabia, most likely today's Yemen. Surah 34 V.15 implies the entire land of Saba was a fertile spot by the Bounty of The Almighty as a gift to its people. Allah Almighty, with His Grace and Mercy, also provided the people of Saba with the knowhow & wealth to build facilities for the comfort of travellers on highways. But despite His enormous mercy of the Sabaeans, they only became more demanding with no appreciation nor gratitude nor thankfulness. They kept wanting more and Allah is always very displeased with ingratitude as clearly conveyed in the Quran. Ingratitude diminishes the thought of Allah in a person's mind and inclines them to be exultant. Allah Almighty bore with them for long. Finally He withdrew His Bounty. That primarily struck Saba through a major flood. It's assumed that the flood occurred because of the collapsing of a dam which Sabaeans had built by constructing canals for irrigating the parched & barren land. After the dam collapsed, vast stretches of the land got flooded. And since the irrigation system was broken, the crops were ruined and land lay waste, no longer fertile for growing the multitude of crops like before. Whatever may have been the cause of the flood is only known to Allah. We simply know that a devastating flood came to the region of Saba. This was followed by a period when many Sabaeans left their homeland and migrated elsewhere (probably to other parts of the Arabian peninsula). Please read carefully from Verses 15 to 21 of Chapter 34.
This was the punishment which you have completely misinterpreted in your usual haste, apparently alluding that Allah was unjust. That was very careless of you. Please know, whoever is liable for what type of punishment is best Judged by Allah, not by us. Only He has the panoramic view of every inside story with all its infinite details. What we do know for sure is that HE is never unjust neither does HE ever inflict any punishment on anyone which is beyond the limits of their violation. As the Quran makes it very clear in several Verses, our rewards from Him are more than our good deeds, but our penalties go only as far as the nature of our transgressions.
"Whoever comes [on the Day of Judgement] with a good deed will have ten times the like thereof [to his credit], and whoever comes with an evil deed will not be recompensed except the like thereof; and they will not be wronged." (6:160) Al-Anam.
So, please don't worry about how Allah punishes people for their disobedience. That's not our domain to pry into. Allah is sufficient to take care of all such matters with the utmost of perfection & infallibility.
This topic is closed at this blog window. We have no more to add. Any more queries you may have, you'll have to take them elsewhere.
My apologies sister as truth be told, upon introspection my niyyah was not focused on correctly understanding the verse. I simply wanted to engage in a mindless exercise of arguments to satisfy my nafs. I hope my apology is accepted by all; it is sincerely out of my fear of being blocked from the baraqah of reading your writings and thoughts on MV, which I do often. Those who argue needlessly and out of ingratitude and arrogance surely risk their hearts and minds being sealed by Allah from His wisdom and guidance. May Allah protect me of such an evil fate, ameen.
DeleteAssalam mualaikum wrt and
kind regards,
Ameen, ameen ya Rab.
DeleteSalam MV Team,
ReplyDeleteAs I was going through a few of topics on history and seerah, I noticed that you are quite opposed to monarchies of old and new, in Europe and in the Middle East. Rightly so, as in Islam we are enjoined to choose our leaders carefully and only obey those who fight in Allah's cause. Monarchs are inherited positions and the common man and woman have zero say on the legitimacy of his or her rule.
Yet, in Islamic history, almost all of our leaders or Caliphs following the passing of our beloved prophet (pbuh), and the 4 righteous caliphs, were also unelected, hereditary monarchs. Starting from the Ummayads to the Mamluks and Mughals until the most recent, the Ottomans. Do you feel these leaders, along which their policies and historical actions, represent true Islam as tought by the Quran? Do you support them or do you reject them?
I would highly appreciate to hear from you regarding this query.
Kind regards,
Walaikum As-Salaam brother hassium. That's correct. Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) who was the Final Messenger as well as the first leader of first Muslim state in Medinah was chosen by Allah Almighty Himself. After his passing, the 4 righteous Caliphs were unanimously selected by the Shura (collection of reputable Muslims recognized for their honesty in the community). Shura was the earliest equivalent of today's Parliament. This, in the 7th century was unheard of anywhere else in the world. But the tragic assassination of Imam Ali opened the doors for the struggle of power politics between the various clans in the Arabian peninsula and the hereditary system of governance came about. Studying the Noble Quran thoroughly, one can certainly say that ideologically the Quran does not endorse the hereditary system as the Quran emphasizes on merits and abilities of every individual, not their birth rights. However, in accordance with Quranic values again, there are other aspects to consider too. Righteous conduct, honesty, efficient management, conducive conditions for delivering to the common masses, security, minority rights, promotion of education (art, science, medicine, astronomy) and awareness of civic duties & developments are among the few to enumerate within almost all Muslim dynasties. It was the Islamic Renaissance that far preceded the one in Europe and the blueprints of learning set by the Muslim dynasties contributed immensely. The sense of responsibility was undoubtedly far deeper than Western or Far-Eastern monarchies for whom conquests & annexation of lands were the only priorities. Various Muslim Empires did work hard to ensure contentment prevailed by and large. The Nasrid dynasty for example which ruled today's Spain (Al-Andalusia) for 700 years (711-1492 AD) was a glittering epitome of harmony & progress of a distinct polity; even Western historians at present call Andalusian Cordoba, Granada and Toledo as 'Cities of Light.' It wasn't a democracy like today. But it was far more progressive than any part of medieval Europe and the gratification among the subjects was a lot more than in any 'democratic' nation at present. Therefore, while the hereditary system isn't generally anyone's first choice, if those successive rulers do their part, it's better for the right leader to come the 'wrong' way rather than a wrong leader come the 'right' way. And of course, we're talking of the middle-ages.
ReplyDeleteThe basic cause for setback of Muslim dynasties was gradual infighting that invariably arose during the tailend of most Muslim Empires rather than the hereditary system itself. That's another detailed part of Islamic history. But overall, despite their departure from the Shura system, the sense of responsibility and desire for community achievement was far greater in Islamic hereditary rulerships compared to Western or far-Eastern monarchies.
Rightfully said sister. Actually to compare absolute power of men or women devoid of divine guidance, to absolute power wielded with divine guidance is an error on my part. Perhaps even blasphemous, nauzubillah min zalik! No amount of democratic processes, political institutions, hiring of experts and technocrats of every worldly matter and self-declared piety and righteousness can be ever considered equivalent to having divine guidance from
DeleteAllah, the Lord of The Worlds and Lord of Mankind. The Quran is a miracle of Allah in that anybody who strive to follow it will be brought to correct path even if they were previously clinging on the precipice of hellfire.
As such, as long as the ruling class declare themselves to be Muslim and open themselves to be held accountable to the Quran, by both themselves and by the populace under their rule, they are infinitely better than heathens ruling based on personal sentiments and secular ideology regardless of how enticing and tempting these may present themselves to the human nafs.
Kind regards,
"right leader to come the 'wrong' way rather than a wrong leader come the 'right' way." lol, this is interesting, yeh sensible,, never occurred to me before.
Delete
DeleteRE: Complete rejection of crucifiction of Jesus son of Mary (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2003.0)
[quote]
"There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them - " (4:159) An-Nisa
Allah Almighty mentions further in Verse 4:159, which is yet another accurate prophecy of the Noble Quran, that non of the People of the Scripture (which here would perhaps mean the Christians, or might include the Christians and the Jews) will believe in the ascension of Jesus son of Mary until their own death. They will all wrongly believe that Jesus son of Mary was crucified and thus deceive themselves. This truth about Jesus son of Virgin Mary not dying on the cross will be made known to the People of the Scripture on the Day of Judgment when Jesus will be a witness against their wrong belief.
[quote]
Salam , I am having great difficulty understanding this interpretation . Does "his death " in the translation refer to death of the People of Scriptures or Prophet Jesus a.s.?
I'm *assuming * it refers to the Christians or Jews themselves not Prophet Jesus a.s.. So basically the verse is saying every one of these people will come to believe in Jesus a.s.' prophethood (instead of God-head for Christians, impostor for Jews) at some point of their lives before dying. And on the Day of Resurrection Jesus a.s. will be a witness against their period in life when they held false belief.
"There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him"... is this saying everyone will or no one will? The literary language is confusing a bit.
"They will all wrongly believe that Jesus son of Mary was crucified and thus deceive themselves"
May I request some clarification on how above meaning was extracted from the translation ? Since crucifixication isnt mentioned in the verse...
kind regards ,
As-Salam Alaikum.
Delete"his death" refers to the Christians who claim to follow Prophet Essa (son of Virgin Maryam) [pbu them]. The interpretation is that none of them in their earthly lifetime will believe that Prophet Essa ascended unto Allah Almighty by His command. They will all presume that he died on the cross.
I know the translations of this Verse is a bit confusing because it seems most translators have themselves probably not understood it too correctly. Abu Ala Maududi's translation of this Verse explains a bit clearer, quote: "There shall be none among the people of the Book but will believe in him before his death, and he will be a witness against them on the Day of Resurrection."
This can be ascertained by focusing on Verses 4:158 and 159. Verse 4:159 is a continuation of the preceding Verse 4:158. Those of Prophet Essa's contemporaries who were hostile toward him claimed he died because they put him on the crucifix. This story went around for generations and finally it became a Christian tradition to believe that Prophet Essa son of Virgin Maryam died on the cross. It's a wrong and misguided belief, and the Christians are not correcting it even after the confirmation of its rejection by The Almighty in His Final Message. Allah guides those who seek His guidance. The Christians aren't seeking His guidance, and thus Allah Almighty has left them in their present state. But they will know the truth that Prophet Essa ascended and wasn't killed on the cross only after their death in the next world. And then, Prophet Essa will himself be a witness against their wrong belief of crucifixion.
I'm sorry sister but I'm still not fully understanding the verse and its context/meaning.
DeleteMaududi's "There shall be none among the people of the Book but will believe in him before his death" to me seem to say these people will come to believe in Prophet Jesus a.s. eventually in their lifetime. Which, assuming not during their death throes, is a positive thing imo.
I am failing to perceive how would this verse be connected to crucifixion or the alleged murder of Prophet Jesus a.s., even though the previous verses did address these.
Hope I'm not being a nuisance here, but if I am I apologize in advance!
Kind regards,
No, not a nuisance. But I don't think Sister Heba could have made it any simpler.
DeleteFirst off, this is very simple English translation (as you wouldn't understand Arabic), unless English is spoken differently in whichever part of the world you reside in. The translation is correct based on the original Arabic which says precisely the same: "wa-in min ahli al-kibabi illa layu minanna bihi qabla al-mawtihi." (4:159).
Secondly, just read very carefully through Verses 156, 157, 158 and 159 of Surah 4 An-Nisa. Then ask yourself if the Christians did believe that Prophet Essa (pbuh) was not crucified or did not die on the crucifix as confirmed by The Almighty, then why would Allah Almighty mention about Prophet Essa being a witness against them on the Day of Judgment?
In the same context, also focus on V.3:55 Surah Al-Imran:
"(And remember) when Allah said: O Essa! Indeed! I am gathering you and causing you to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing you of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow you above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me you will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ." (3:55).
"those who follow you" refers not to present time Christians. It refers to those who followed Prophet Essa's original teachings of submission to Allah alone, the same as Quranic Message. Not even 1% of Christians at present believe in that, in other words, not even 1% of them today believe in Prophet Essa's original teachings.
"those who disbelieve" refers to the ones who opposed Prophet Essa, helped the Romans to plot to kill Prophet Essa and prepared the crucifix, but Allah Almighty made Prophet Essa safely ascend unto Him. What appeared on the crucifix was a mere body on the command of Allah Almighty to obscure His miracle (or His portent of the unseen) from the eyes of the people.
So, the common mainstream Christian belief is that Prophet Essa died on the cross.
This is one of the major points which the Noble Quran rejects about altered Christian beliefs. Crucifixion is rejected in the Quran, the ONLY unaltered Divine Message available intact.
Thank you for the additional input brother Najaf. Let me try to analyze a bit further.
Delete"There shall be none among the people of the Book but will believe in him "
Paraphrase: None of the Christians (probably also Jews) will believe in Essa (which alludes to Essa's ascendency).
"before his death,"
Paraphrase: Here "his" refers to the Christians until the end of times, meaning, none of them (the Christians) believe in Essa until death overtakes them (the Christians).
"and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -"
Paraphrase: This is very simple, no need to explain it. "he" refers to Essa. Of course it means Essa will be a witness against his own people who denied him ascendency.
During Easter Christians also dramatize the scene of crucifixion. The Quran makes it clear that this was not Essa, it only seemed that way to his tormentors who were deceived. Essa had by then already ascended. Thus, Verse 4:158 : " .. but it appeared so unto them; .... those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture;"
Allah also rebukes those guessing folks by saying they have no knowledge and so they guess. What "knowledge" is Allah referring to? That "knowledge" is the miracle through which Allah saved Essa from the pain and distress of dying an agonizing death on the cross. No one needs to be an alim in Arabic or English or any language to understand something so plain.
Dear sr. Heba,
DeleteYou said,
""There shall be none among the people of the Book but will believe in him "
Paraphrase: None of the Christians (probably also Jews) will believe in Essa (which alludes to Essa's ascendency)."
This is the root of my confusion. In my understanding your paraphrasing conveys the *opposite* statement of the translation.
For example, if I say there shall be none among the students *but* will reseat the exam. This would mean everyone in the class will reseat the exam, not no one will.
Likewise, the statement of the translation would also say, all of the Christians (or people of the Book) will believe in him, not none. Purely based on the structure of the sentence.
As reference, here is the verse translated by the Clear Quran team :
وَإِن مِّنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ إِلَّا لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِۦ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِۦ ۖ وَيَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَـٰمَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًۭا
Every one of the People of the Book will definitely believe in him before his death.1 And on the Day of Judgment Jesus will be a witness against them.
Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran
Brother, I'm putting it together by reading Verses 156 to 159 of Surah 4. Only Allah knows the final answer. But I'm quite definite that even in the translation you quoted, it interprets their belief only when they're at the doorstep of death which is pretty much useless and equivalent to believing after death.
DeleteHere, let me also quote A. A. Maududi's explanation of V.4:159.
"This has been interpreted in two ways and both are likely. (Here by the people of the Book are meant the Jews and may also be the Christians). According to the first interpretation, as adopted in the Translation, it means: "All the people of the Book, alive at the time of the natural death of Christ, will have believed in him, that is, in his Prophethood." The second interpretation of "There shall be none among the people of the Book but will believe in him before his death" is that all the people of the Book before their death do realize and believe that Christ is really a Messenger of God, though that belief will be of no avail at the time .. " And Allah know best.
The second interpretation is much the same as I alluded to. I don't at all accept the first interpretation because on reading Verses 4:156-159, this commentary just doesn't add up.
According to my approach, understanding Quranic Verses particularly translations aren't grammar tests to only concentrate on the sentence we're trying to follow. When the Quran narrates real incidents of the past, we need to keep our focus on all of the contents & points mentioned in that Divine narration to understand its allusion or factual occurrence.
I suggest you again to read Verses 156 to 159 of Quran Chapter 4 as I have done. You will observe throughout that The Almighty is speaking in a reprimanding tone, admonishing those people responsible for rejecting the truth. Nowhere here does Allah mention about nor indicate their timely obedience from them. And therefor in protraction The Almighty asserts that on the Day of Judgment Essa will be a witness against them. If these people were obedient enough to have believed in Prophet Essa's ascendency including the miracles which The Almighty bestowed on him well during their lifetime, why would Prophet Essa be a witness against them? Can you please explain that? In Verse 4:156 Allah states "And because of their disbelief and of their speaking against Mary a tremendous calumny;" Then again in the following Verse 4:157 Allah states "And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them;" Please ponder, what type of disbelief is The Almighty referring to? It's the disbelief of the privileges which Allah bestowed on His messenger, Essa son of Virgin Maryam. If these people and their future generations were / would be believers during course of their lifetime, would the tone of Allah's message be as berating as this?
And of course, I repeat, believing at the time of death throes is, for all practical purposes, same as believing after death. While at the threshold of death, every disbeliever will believe but that 'belief' will bear no fruits. This is precisely the reference (at best) about the Christians and Jews.
...... And that grammatical issue you mentioned over the incertitude of the commentary is primarily because of the literal translation from original Arabic to English. As I've seen, brother Najaf has already mentioned the original Arabic via transliteration. If you check any literal word to word translation of the original Arabic to English, those English words may convey a very different concept compared to the original Arabic because both languages have vastly differing grammatical rules. We have to initially get a grasp of the entire event, scenario or incident contained within that narration to understand each and every Ayat. Having said that, to assume that people of the book (Christians & Jews) will all believe in the ascendency of Prophet Essa during their lifetime similarly as a submitter or true believer does is simply NOT correct, the evidence of which is loud & clear from Verses 4:156-159 in the Words of The Almighty Himself.
DeleteSr Heba,
DeleteI trust your reading and interpretation of the verses infinitely more than my own, knowing full well of my deeply flawed perceptiveness of the Holy Quran.
Having read your reply, I must come to the conclusion that the translations at best are merely opinions of human beings on what Allah taala mean to reveal to us, with the absolute knowledge belonging to Him only. The best perception belongs not to the linguist or historians, but to the people who practice His commandments diligently and humbly, and stay away from His prohibitions fearfully and unreservedly, by the will of Allah.
May Allah bless this discussion among us and lead us all closer to Him.
Assalamualaikum wrt and kind regards.
"And of course, I repeat, believing at the time of death throes is, for all practical purposes, same as believing after death"
DeleteYou are correct, sister. Even if we disregard the previous verses setting up the context for verse 159...belief at the throes of death is surely equal to dying as disbelievers. There is nothing positive about this at all, as opposed to my earlier sentiments.
Reading it together from verse 156 then the message becomes even more clear and precise to mean exactly as you have stated in your original post in MV.
I thank you for the initial post on MV and for clarifying it here despite my fallacious protesting.
Kind regards,
"Having read your reply, I must come to the conclusion that the translations at best are merely opinions of human beings on what Allah taala mean to reveal to us, with the absolute knowledge belonging to Him only. The best perception belongs not to the linguist or historians, but to the people who practice His commandments diligently and humbly, and stay away from His prohibitions fearfully and unreservedly, by the will of Allah."
DeleteI realized the error of this comment now and wish to delete it. Can one of the admins please do so on my behalf as I can't find the option to do it myself?
Thank you and kind regards.
"...belief at the throes of death is surely equal to dying as disbelievers."
DeleteCorrect, believing shortly before the transition of soul from the temporary to the permanent is same as believing after transition and thus pointless.
"Even if we disregard the previous verses setting up the context for verse 159"
Please be careful brother on how you express yourself while alluding to HIS words. We cannot "disregard" any Verses of the Quran, no matter what. And of course, Verses preceding V.159 are directly in context with V.159.
"Please be careful brother on how you express yourself while alluding to HIS words. We cannot "disregard" any Verses of the Quran, no matter what. And of course, Verses preceding V.159 are directly in context with V.159."
Deletenoted and thank you for reminding me. May Allah forgive me and have mercy on me for my carelessness in speech and thought concerning His words. Ameen.
Ameen.
Delete@ Hassuim. You mean to say you never knew that 99.9% if not 100% Christians for centuries after Jesus' ascendency until today believe that Jesus died on the cross?
ReplyDeleteAre we sure the Christians of today are the same as the People of the Book in the Quran? I do not think so. Because otherwise Allah wouldn't allow Muslim men to marry their women on the account of them not being mushrik women. Modern Christians have taken the imagery and fictional character of Jesus as a partner to Allah. But the Quran did condemn those who persecuted and killed the Christians of Najran, as well as elevated the Christian Romans over the pagan Persians in Surah Rum. I believe back then the Bible was far less corrupt than it is now, and monotheism was still the core ideal before being supplanted by the Satanic ideology of Trinity.
DeleteAnd big lies coming from hardcore orthodox Christian clerics with forged prophecies on Jesus dying on the cross in agony with zero evidence of consistency, let alone any historical evidence. What they claim to be "prophecies" of Jesus' death on the cross comes from the same human-written Old & New Testaments that were written, re-written, re-re-written, re-re-re-written (which goes on and on) until today. More than 10,000 versions of the thundering forgery of Old & New Testaments!
ReplyDeleteUn-authenticity & forgery of the gospels aren't just notorious but official in modern times that not a single prophecy is worth anything beyond a prelude to the trashcan. After all, what is the so-called Christmas the preparations of which has already begun in Christian circls? Do you think it's really the birth anniversary of Jesus? No way! This is another good piece I read at MV and saved. "Was Dec.25 the birth date of Prophet Jesus, son of Virgin Maryam?"
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=996.msg2712#msg2712
Salams and hi ya Nissmi :) Correct .. good hearing from you.
DeleteOkay brother hassum. We have no further info on this topic so we're closing it from our side.
If you're still confused, we're sorry we couldn't help you any more. May Allah Almighty clear your perception. Ameen.
Wa'salam, hi and thanko Sis Heba :)
DeleteIntroducing myself - I am a recent convert to Islam as of July 3, 2020. It was through reading the Qur'an that I had come to the certain conviction that the Qur'an is the complete and unaltered word of God. It was all through reading just the Qur'an. Since then it has been a confusing journey through a myriad of rules, methods of prayer, and such that lead me to ask where did all these rules come from because I couldn't find them when I read the Qur'an. I have since found some Qur'an only sites like Qurancentric and Quranite as well as this site. My hope is to be part of a community in which I can learn, ask questions and grow in faith. Hopefully this is acceptable and I may have a Guest account. I believe you also wanted an ID for the account and if available I'd simply choose BillC
ReplyDeleteThank you
As-Salam Alaikum and peace brother BillC. May Allah Almighty reward you for your efforts and desire to learn. Alhumdulilah. Also, many thanks for the intro. At the moment we aren't taking in registered members in the forum, keeping it as a read-only board for guests. You are very welcomed to explore MV as our guest and put up any queries you may have in this site. Insh'Allah, we will do our best to answer your questions and clarify matters wherever needed.
DeleteThank you! It's been a few day since I have been able to get back on line. Thank you for the warm welcome :)
ReplyDeleteSalam MV team,
ReplyDeleteFrom surah Al Isra verse 21,
"See how We prefer one of them above another, and verily the Hereafter will be greater in degrees and greater in preferment."
May I know what's your interpretation of the above translation of the verse? Who is being preferred here and can we do anything in order to join the preferred group, both in this world and more importantly the hereafter?
Jazakallahu khayran and kind regards,
Walaykum As-Salam brother. Yes I can help you with that.
DeleteV.17:21 connects with preceding Verses of this Surah, 18 to 20.
Allah Almighty explains that even those who don't think of Him or those who disbelieve but work hard to achieve material success in this world, Allah recognizes their worldly endeavors and grants them whatever earthly goals they strive for. But this favor is restricted only up to the boundaries of earthly realm. Since they only thought of this dunya and never reflected on the next world, so they won't be among His favored ones in the next world. That special and everlasting reward from Allah Almighty in the next world is only for those faithful slaves of His who worked hard in this world to please Him (that is, elevated their conduct with good ethical deeds, spiritual & practical, and nurtured their conscience with the thought of Allah in their hearts & minds). Thus, both these categories of people get their recompense for their work. While the reward of the former is fleeting/temporary, the reward of the latter is permanent and of much greater value in His Sight.
Please read Verses 18 to 21 together and you'll find it much easier to grasp the Message. Alhumdulilah.
Dear sr. ruhi,
DeleteYup i recall the previous verses saying those who strive solely for worldly gains will be granted by Allah worldly gains, at the expense of everlasting torment in hellfire in the hereafter.
While those who strive for the hereafter while being a mukmin (a believer in strict monotheism) with the necessary effort they shall be shown appreciation and rewards by Allah.
The next verse says, Allah will bestow His bounty on both this group of people and the former.
So it is correct if I say verse 21 states; while both sets of people will be given His bounty, it is the latter group of righteous mukmins who will be shown preference in wealth and stature in this world...and the degree and magnitude of preference will only be much greater for them in the hereafter.
So Allah is admonishing the absolute futility of the efforts of those who chases after the pleasures of this world compared to those who strive for akhirah with the correct effort.
This may be in contrast to traditional belief of the dunya being a prison for believers but paradise for disbelievers. Actually, if the believers are actually doing the right things according to Allah's guidance, their status in dunya will also be higher than disbelievers, certainly not as lowly and pathetic as being prisoners.
Kind regards,
"So it is correct if I say verse 21 states; while both sets of people will be given His bounty, it is the latter group of righteous mukmins who will be shown preference in wealth and stature in this world...and the degree and magnitude of preference will only be much greater for them in the hereafter."
DeleteThe righteous may also be shown greater preferment in this world, depending on many factors of life known to Allah alone. But Verses 18 to 21 of Surah 17 do not make such a promise about this world. But that's not important. This interim world is a trial / test for the believer which they know. What's relevant is that Allah has confirmed that the believer will receive their wages for all of their efforts & perseverance undiminished in the next world with far greater preferment compared to the worldly success of a disbeliever.
Dear all,
DeletePlease disregard my previous message as reading through it again the glaring lapse in logic became clear to me.
In verse 21, the side being shown preference in this world must be disbelievers, not striving believers.
And the side given a much greater and more significant preference in the hereafter are the striving believers.
Since the disbelievers are doomed to burn in hellfire, no measure of preference can be drawn between them and mukmins when it comes to the hereafter. So verse 21 is comparing the hereafter of mukmins to the worldly status of disbelievers.
Do you agree?
Kind regards,
Dear all, i would like to retract my previous comment
Delete" it is correct if I say verse 21 states; while both sets of people will be given His bounty, it is the latter group of righteous mukmins who will be shown preference in wealth and stature in this world..."
Verse 21 doesn't say the above statement, imho after re reading my own comment here. In hereafter, Muslims and disbelievers are not comparable. True Muslims are promised Jannah while disbelievers hellfire. There is no measure of preference when comparing a wretched place as hell to a blessed place of Jannah. Shown preference means given something better over something is good. There is absolutely no goodness in hellfire.
So my current understanding of the verse, in relation to the verses preceding it, is that *preference shown to Muslims will be Jannah, which is immeasurably greater than any preference shown to disbelievers over believers in this dunya*. So we shouldn't feel bad about the temporary blessings we may see enjoyed by the disbelievers in this world even if the blessings seem great and attractive to us.
Your thoughts on this would be highly appreciated .
Kind regards,
"So my current understanding of the verse, in relation to the verses preceding it, is that *preference shown to Muslims will be Jannah, which is immeasurably greater than any preference shown to disbelievers over believers in this dunya*. So we shouldn't feel bad about the temporary blessings we may see enjoyed by the disbelievers in this world even if the blessings seem great and attractive to us."
DeleteYes right. This is what Sister Ruhi said in different words.
Indeed Sr. Heba,
DeleteSurely its a great blessing of Allah that sister Ruhi (and also the rest of MV) is able to correctly understand the verses of the Quran with constancy and efficiency. Ma sha Allah, He bestows His favours and blessings to whoever He wishes.
Ameen ya Rab.
DeleteDear respected and cherished friends at MV,
ReplyDeleteI have a personal request of clarification and advice that I hope to seek from you.
In Islam, can we marry through online video networking services, like Facebook Live, Zoom, and various others currently on the market? If so, what would be the main elements of the nikah process we have to organize for?
Whilst I am planning to also consult a local sharia official where I am located in wrt to this query, I feel most at ease in getting feedback from MV first.
Are there anything major I should look out for, which may cause future issues by getting into such marriages?
Brief background of my situation: I am currently living in a separate country from the person interested in marrying me. Due to Covid-19 pandemic, travel is difficult and troublesome, in addition to costing a fortune. As such, online nikah seems like a perfect solution to my dilemma, at least from my perspective.
I look forward to hearing your opinion and viewpoints on the legitimacy and practicality of such marriages, in light of Quran, the source of guidance for mankind.
Assalamualaikum wrt, and kind regards.
Hassan
Walaikum As-Salam brother Hasan. We are really not the experts in this field; can only speak on the basics in accordance with Quranic guidelines and one's common sense. I understand the trend of online nikah has caught up fast because of the pandemic and the restrictions that come with it. This situation is quite unprecedented and so is the idea of online nikah. Obviously there are some conflicts among our Muslim jurists. While some are uneasy about it, others are of the opinion that it's okay under the circumstances.
DeleteA brief wrap-up of the Quranic guidelines on nikah: Although the Quran does not directly mention of the presence of witnesses during nikah, the concept of marriage in the Quran automatically necessitates the presence of witnesses for purposes of legality and security of the marriage pledge for both parties. Thus according to Sharia law established by our jurists, primary requirements of nikah are consent of bride & groom, at least 2 adult witnesses (men or women) and fixing a mehr to be paid to the bride by the groom in case of divorce. Still more importantly according to Quranic instructions, dowry (or gift) must be given from the groom to bride (NOT vice-versa). The Prophet (pbuh) was commanded that he must give dowry to his wives (V.33:5). By default financial support of the wife is the duty of the husband.
Neither believing men nor women are permitted to marry idolaters (V.2:221). It would be correct to assume that 'idolaters' refer to all those who reject Monotheism (Tawheed).
Mutah, urfi and misyar (all referring to temporary or secret marriages) are un-Quranic and not allowed for a Muslim, man or woman.
Nikah on telephone is greatly discouraged as there are possibilities of fraudulent conflicts with no evidence of witnesses. An Islamic nikah is always preferred with documentary proof to ensure it's a proper marriage and not a loosely tied relationship.
Keeping in mind the above rules and guidelines, you and your future bride can arrange an online nikah in consultation with a responsible & reliable Muslim jurist (or jurists). In our opinion that should be okay particularly considering the pandemic. May Allah Almighty bless you with happiness. Ameen.
Best wishes from MV team.
Salam sr. Heba,
DeleteThank you for your swift yet comprehensive reply to my query.
Just to review your points, there is no unanimous judicial viewpoint on online video-call nikahs. Understandable considering this trend is new and a product of human policymaking.
The ceremony must have witnesses. Which wont be an issue at all as the bride candidate is a maternal second cousin from our ancestral hometown. Therefore the ceremony should realistically involve many local elders and authority figures, at least on her side. Quran allows marriages to maternal cousins and paternal cousins so that's sorted as well.
The mehr and dowry. The mehr is a monetary payment to the bride herself as an insurance for divorce, if Allah wills it to happen. The amount is yet to be negotiated but definitely will be part of the nikah.
The dowry is a obligatory token of appreciation shown by the groom towards the bride, also to be given during the nikah. In most likelihood this will be combined with the mehr in my case.
I will be financially supporting the bride through my own wealth, as per Quranic rulings on men being providers for their spouses and womenfolk.
With regards to monotheism, I can only ascertain that the future bride, her family, me and my family are all traditional orthodox Muslims. Only Allah knows the true extent of someone's faith in Him.
Lastly, no temporary or secret marriages will be involved and communication will not be over telephone or any form of non- visual channels. I am considering video-chat services like either Zoom or Facebook Live, based on their popularity and robustness of features, as well as from noting other online nikahs utilizing similar services.
All legal documentations such as birth certificates, passports, proof of kinship and residential address can only be exchanged visually through the video camera or photo-messaging. I'm not sure how either side will be able to check for authenticity beyond trusting the honesty and truthfulness of respective document holders. Whilst I doubt this is going to be an issue for families involved (technically the brides family are my extended family), the government authorities registrating the nikah in either countries may find it problematic. Understandably so. Most online nikahs I have read about took place within the same country. Which is much less hassle legally then international online nikahs I would imagine.
Hopefully the local sharia court office can be of help with the above concerns.
Thank you for your kind words and wishes. I am happy and stressed at the same time with this, may Allah ease my affairs and bestow His blessings on everyone involved, including you guys. Ameen.
Kind regards,
From the Islamic view point your analysis seems fine, except for your worries over the handling of testimonials by govt authorities. I think your local Sharia office should certainly be able to help you with that. Maybe you can also mail the copies of essential documents to the nikah registering office. InshAllah, the issue will be resolved.
DeleteMay Allah The Almighty make the path easy for you, InshAllah, ameen.
DeleteUpdate: Unfortunately for me the wedding talks has been permanently called off as of today. The household of the bride, based on what the brother relayed to me, will now seek alternative arrangements without delay.
I actually do not fault the parents of the bride at all. The courtship process had been going on for a few months through Facebook (no photos and inappropriate/off topic messages) and I have consistently failed to show firm commitment in marriage nor disassociate myself unequivocally , leaving the bride's side in constant uncertainty. In hindsight I am bewildered at the level of patience and goodwill that were shown by both the bride and her family considering the sensitivity and significance of this matter on the face of my offensive indecisiveness.
Whoever Allah seek to bestow His blessings upon, none may hinder it. Whatever good that reaches us, it is from Allah, and whatever evil fall upon us, it is only from ourselves.
I thank you both regardless for your advice, knowledge, and prayers.
Assalamualaikum wrt and kind regards,
Dear team, im sorry if my last unpublished post infringed upon the rules of this site just by being overtly personal and irrelevent/intruding to the overall goal of this forum.
DeleteWhilst I appreciate your presence online as friends, i believe I sorely ignored the standard decorum of public discussion of Islamic topics and Quran by extending it further than necessary.
Please feel free to not publish the said comment, or if you feel it may be of benefit to post it, then I welcome it too. I value and trust your judgement.
Happy new year in advance, may what is to come be better than what is behind us.
Walaykom AsSalam. Sorry to learn of the turn of events in your life. May The Almighty grant you contentment in future with greater strength of determination and decisiveness. Ameen.
DeleteDear Mv team,
DeletePlease do not publish this message for it is an admission of deception and lying on my part within my previous set of comments. I'm writing for you to please delete the comments or perhaps all of my comments I have submitted here, in the hope my sins will be lessened or forgiven by Allah.
Truth of the matter is, the female relative messaged me on FB proposing marriage, and imploring me to contact her father, who is a distant relative/family friend.
I never communicated with her father, or any of her elder relatives but continued my correspondence with her on FB. I gave mixed messages, finally agreeing to marriage. Her parents contacted my father and the agreement was made on the phone. The very next day I messaged her brother saying I don't want the marriage and the arrangement must be cancelled.
This was the truth. Afterwards I felt regret so I contacted both the relative and her brother for one more chance.
Even during this second phase, I continued giving mixed signals through my messages. Note my father and her father were already in agreement of marriage where my father will bear the expenses of wedding, mehr, dowry etc.
After which I made the mental decision to myself to really go through the marriage. This was shortly before my initial comment asking for guidelines for online nikah on this forum.
Afterwards, I messaged her brother one last time, asking whats the stance of his family towards the marriage so I can start concrete arrangements on my side with surety.
The brother replied the next day saying her family are no longer interested in this proposal and have decided upon another potential candidate because they correctly deduced I am playing games at their expense. The end.
The final comment about clans, dowry, ritualized zina etc are all fabrication from my own imagination.
I apologize profusely for subjecting all of your minds with my deceptive and idiotic ramblings. I have nothing else to say but only to ask please pray for me.
Assalamualaikum wrt.
Sure, removed your messages. Brother hassium, kindly do not keep sending messages regarding your personal life, unless you need some guidelines in regard to Faith. MV is not a counselling centre. Thank you.
DeleteMay Allah Almighty grant you guidance and happiness. Ameen.
Noted sr. Zainab,
DeleteI will cease such actions at once and for all. With Allah as my witness.
Jazakallahu khayran for your duas. May Allah bestow you with the best of His rewards and blessings. Ameen.
Assalamualaikum wrt,
ReplyDeleteRE: Charity begins at home
Dear MV team,
The above topic is rather straight forward and have been thoroughly elaborated and explained in the forums. Basically, we should strive to do good as much as we can, but do it in a systematic and logical way, with close family taking precedence in receiving kind treatment over distant family and friends. Exception of course, for disbelievers among them until they believe. (We should disavow from them until they come back willingly to Islam, correct? Showing love to disbelievers is forbidden)
My doubt is, how do we measure and discern closeness of family and blood ties? The way I have been tought is by analyzing our ancestral links to a common male ancestor. For example, after my parents, my sisters and brothers share closest ties with me therefore they have the strongest rights for kind treatment from me. After that, comes my *paternal* uncles and aunts, then their children, my paternal first cousins. Then my paternal grandparents and their siblings. Then my paternal second cousin. Basically, my parents, then house of my father, then house of his father, then house of his father etc.
Some Muslim societies however, confusingly hold their maternal family in equal terms to their paternal family, with a few even going as far as associating with their maternal family more than their paternal family. These are called Matrilineal societies, and they exist mostly in Africa and South East Asia. I believe this is a form of idiosyncratic nonsense, conjured by people with vested interests like the Jewish clergy and of course, the hadithist liars.
One hadith reads, "The maternal aunt is of the same status as the mother".
A maternal aunt or uncle is a stranger, in terms of kinship ties, to us compared to paternal aunt or uncle. That doesn't mean we can't show them kindness or respect, but not with the same precedence as the latter group of people, and definitely not with same level as our own mothers.
What do you think of this issue? How do you define close and distant family? Jazakallahu khayran and kind regards,
Walaykom As-Salam. Definitely the Noble Quran tells us to love and respect our parents .. the concept conveyed is clearly to love them both equally. There are Verses that also instruct us to be kind to relatives and neighbors. Ref. Verses 4:36 and 17:23 and more. Those related through marriage are also in the category of relatives in the Quran (V.25:54).
DeleteMost of the aspects you've mentioned are traditional issues or personal perspectives, not based on the Quran. It's really up to every individual to decide their relationship with relatives. My advise would be to keep the matter as close as possible to the general guidelines of the Quran.
Yes you are very much correct Brother Najaf;
DeleteMarriage are also in the category of relatives in the Quran (V.25:54) in addition to sharing blood ties. But I feel this is referring to in-laws we gain after marriage, who previously strangers are now family.
However, I have to disagree the statement that every individual is free to decide the relationship between relatives. Brother, isn't that contradictory to the concept of being Muslim, and also the perspective of the MV team themselves in the appropriate threads?
Priority to *close relatives* over distant ones and friends, in terms of kindness and inheritance is infact based in the Quran. May I know how do you define close relatives? For example, both brothers of our mothers and fathers are technically our uncles. Likewise their children are equally our cousins. In this scenario, which uncle and which set of cousins are we enjoined to show priority towards? (Assuming all are believers). My view is of course, our paternal uncles and their children, respectively since they are closest to us in sharing blood ties. Ancestry only passes through fathers in Islam.
Look forward to hear from you,
Kind regards,
Wa'salam brother. The Noble Quran gives basic information/guidelines on how to treat relatives within a normal functional family. Parents are definitely the most important as defined in the Quran in various Ayats. Outside of that, there are many other kinships too. Everyone knows which one is closer than the other. Moreover, other family bonds / circumstances may also come up in the course of one's life. In all such cases one should try to manage relationships by staying as close to Quranic values as possible and doing one's best with the use of one's common sense. There aren't any carved-on-stone rules for all ties of kindred. This is the point Brother Najaf highlighted.
DeleteQuoting you:
"For example, both brothers of our mothers and fathers are technically our uncles. Likewise their children are equally our cousins. In this scenario, which uncle and which set of cousins are we enjoined to show priority towards?"
The Noble Quran does NOT make specific or detailed rules on handling or coordinating such "priorities" and we at MV consider ourselves NO authority to generalize such issues on our own. We are NOT fatwa givers nor traditional story-tellers. Everyone has to assess the manner of managing such matters on their own. Different people may have certain favorites among uncles, aunts and cousins in their families for reasons of their own. There may not be anything wrong with that. One just needs to make sure one isn't unkind to those who are less preferred.
Needless to say, you're welcomed to disagree. But we cannot answer such queries any further. Please take them to some other Q&A source that dwell on traditions rather than the Noble Quran.
Duly noted sr. Ruhi,
DeleteActually my initial understanding of the writings in the MV thread seemed to support my pre-conceived ideas of tribal and family loyalties. Which gave me a sense of validation, but it appears now I may have been as usual, misconstruing things by taking a point and stretching it to an opposite extreme.
The responses by Br. Najaf and yourself on this page are more nuanced and not as black and white to my understanding. Definitely I need to reflect on these on a deeper level and carve out my perspective accordingly, insha Allah.
Thank you for your response, Allah bless.
Kind regards,
Salaam MV team,
ReplyDeleteCan Muslims offer nafl prayers in between the end of Asr and the start of maghrib?
Traditional Islamic teachings has forbidden such practice, and I personally do not oppose it or support it as I feel its rather a innocous and harmless stance.
Jazakallahu khayran,
Kind regards
Walaikum As-Salaam. These are hadith rules according to which we are not allowed to offer salat (nafl or qaza) during sunrise, sunset and midday (or noon I suppose). The ahadith have needlessly made this matter very complicated without giving any reasons. Such rules have nothing to do with the Noble Quran. I think it's perfectly okay to offer nafl or qaza salat at these times.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I suppose, the reason for this strange rule is that offering salat during sunrise, sunset and noonday is taken as a gesture of worshiping the sun. That's stupid. Can a true Monotheistic believer ever nurture such awful intentions? Never. At all times and while offering salat, we are strictly focused on Allah Almighty alone. Regardless of the position of the sun, NO sincere believer can even imagine for a second to worship the sun. I just ignore such rules. Complete nonsense.
On the subject of theft, alcohol, zina
ReplyDeleteAllah says we should ponder over the verses of Quran. This is my attempt at it.
Human beings are social creatures and function best when in a group. The most fundamental group within human society is the immediate family , with parents and siblings . On a more macro level, the grouping take form in the shape of clans , tribes and nations. Dysfunction within any of these levels often result in poor quality of life and loss of honour and dignity among all the members of said group .
In contrast , Allah created the entirety of universe and Earth to be benefited by mankind as one of His most favored creation, and made us custodians over land and sea and all riches therein. Many verses of the Quran affirm the high dignity and status of human beings over many of Allah's creations which are magnificent and faultless in their own rights. As such , being poor, destitute , despised and dishonoured cannot possibly be the intended state of existence for human beings . These can only be temporary afflictions as tests from Allah or due to injustice (zulm) by ourselves .
In light of these facts, Allah forbid the above sins among others due to destructive effect they have on society. Zina, whilst may produce cute and loving progeny cheapens the institution of marriage as the lawful means to form family. Alcohol hinders inhibition and rationality, and boosts aggression leading to fights and feuds among individuals and groups . Theft creates mistrust and anger among the rightful owners of property often leading to resentment and hatred that are passed down over generations between individuals and the groups they belong to .
In my opinion , the people who avoid theft, zina and alcohol yet live lifes wilfully aloof from societal attachments such as commitment to their family, tribe and nation (within the guidelines of our religion) , are missing the point of being human. I would think these people, are sinning in other ways, to compensate for the pleasure of being independent, free of commitments and accountability whilst living a dignified life, atleast on the surface .
May I ask the friends at MV for your feedback on the above thoughts ?
Assalamualaikum and kind regards ,
Walaykom AsSalam. Brother, we have already put up our thoughts on theft, zina and alcohol with direct references from the Noble Quran at MV in sufficient detail. The following are the relevant links, so please read them. We have nothing more to say other than everything we've already stated in our forum. Moreover, Sister Zeynab informed she already discussed the issue of theft with you as in the Quran in Twitter. There's nothing more to add from our side on that either.
DeleteTheft:
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1344.0
Punishment for theft
Zina:
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4755.0
Whether single or married, zina is a big sin for all.
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=108.0
Misyar/Mutah
Alcohol:
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=33.0
What does Quran say about alcohol consumption
Term 'wine' in the Noble Quran
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3538.0
"Strong drink" is not referred to as a portent of Allah in Surah An-Nahl
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3803.0
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1624.0
Grapes are much better than wine
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1418.0
Alcohol, instrument for oppression
Just to remind you, this blog outlet is only for intros and brief Q&A answers to which one cannot find at MV. It's not a discussion outlet. Repeating for the umpteenth time, we really don't have the time for lengthy discussions here particularly considering we've already posted plenty of info at MV boards.
Very well dear brother Najaf, your points are all completely valid and I appreciate you taking the time and effort in writing them in reply. Thank you for this.
DeleteI just have one question, that I have been struggling with to reconcile with Islamic fiqh and jurispudence, that I sincerely hope you and others can provide views on, however brief they may be.
*Are inter-ethnic/cultural/nationality marriages halal in Islam?* This may not be relevent for Muslims in their home countries...but in diaspora regions of the West, such marriages do occur.
The reason I have to forward my question here is because I am unable to get closure from explanations from mainstream jurists and scholars. Traditionally, I have been raised by pious and humble Muslim elders to not marry outside of our community. As an adult, I noticed this is a prevalent concept is many Muslim societies of various languages and ethnicities, esp in the West or non-Muslim countries. I think its about showing loyalty and gratitude to the community that raised and provided for us, which are very Islamic indeed.
In addition, I believe the prohibition is not out of hatred or prejudice, but out of a realistic acceptance that marriages are already delicate affairs by nature, adding the complexity of language and cultural differences is a self-defeating endeavor, often motivated by emotions and short-term thinking.
I apologize profusely if this question is irrelevent to the mission of MV. The most common answer from jurists is you can marry outside of culture/ethncity as long as their Muslim. Which I find weird considering the contradictory viewpoint held in the Muslim community members themselves.
I hope to hear from you,
Jazakallahu khayran and kind regards.
As-Salam Alaykum. That common answer from jurists which you stated is correct. Ethnicity and nationality are irrelevant as long as the person is a sincere Muslim. There are certain Muslim communities that may dwell on ethnicity or family lineage etc. But such issues have no bearing on Quranic values. In true Islam, that is the Noble Quran, the spirit of unity in believers is based on Faith alone, not race, language, ancestral links or social status. These aspects creating hurdles in Muslim marriages have come down from conventional values of traditional genres. Various Muslim societies harboring such concepts that clash with Quranic principles are, unfortunately, not uncommon. But the fact is that the quintessence of the unity of Muslims is based on the Monotheistic Faith, not ethnicity, nationality or language.
Deletei appreciate your insight sr. Ruhi, jazakallahu khayran. shirk (idolatry) nowadays is so widely diffused in society whether its worshipping money , political ideology , social status, lineage and tribal pride, and thousands of other forms its pointless and unfeasible to focus on anything else but monotheism as the most important criterion for marriage.
Deleteadd in the realistic constraints of dower , mehr and financial duties then it become even more imperative for men to choose their partners with diligence and wisdom else risk themselves losing both in terms of salvation in the hereafter as well as material wealth we depend on for a dignified life in this dunya .
kind regards
Dear MV team,
ReplyDeleteAssalamualaikum wrt,
Can a person repent for a crime wihout actually admitting to it to society and thus be held accountable to it as per shariah law? For example , Allah clearly commands for enacting justice in all circumstances and crime must be fairly punished after trial by pious believers , esp when it involves the oppression of others. A thief must have his or her means of thievery cut off (through prison term, and such) , an adulterer must be flogged 80 times , a murderer lawfully killed and so on.
And what should others with knowledge of the crime do in this case, should they leave it to Allah to manifest the appropriate outcome and pray for the repentant person, or should they forsake the person until he or she is held accountable to the law?
Jazakallahu khayran , and kind regards .
Walaikum As-Salam WR WB. It depends on the nature of the crime. If for instance one picks someone's pocket stealing a $20 bill and takes off without being caught, then in my opinion it's very likely Allah Almighty may forgive that person if he repents sincerely and never repeats the offense (ref. V.5:39). That might even be so in the case of adultery or zina provided the repentance is genuine and the violation not repeated (ref. V.24:5) But in transgressions that are more devastating like murder or arson or aggressive/unprovoked warfare causing widespread death and destruction etc., justice must take its course in this world; and for sure justice will be implemented in the next world. In some such cases too, the culprits can be truly and wholeheartedly remorseful and penitent. It's possible that Allah Almighty may pardon them in the Hereafter, but it's entirely up to Him alone and only He knows. We cannot come up with any conclusions in scenarios like these.
DeleteI understand your point sr. Heba, but the context of my query is for Muslims living in the Western world where the legal system is completely secular and based on arbitrary humanistic values . In these societies even murder is not punished in line with shariah when convicted, whereby many continue to live comfortable and secure lives in well-protected prisons before being released into society after a number of years . Now , even if the murderers are genuinely regretful, in the absence of a fair justice system how would they acquire forgiveness having completely avoided the clear prescription of Allah for their crimes? Likewise for those who commit zina, steal etc. Those who do get punished fairly according to the shariah, they may very well have realistic opportunity for tawbah but such scenario is currently only possible in a handful of countries governed by shariah, certainly not for Muslims in the West and non-Muslim or secular countries.
DeleteKind regards ,
So, what on earth can you do about that? Will you lead an insurrection like Trump's domestic terrorists and invade the Parliament? Whatever is beyond one's capacity is just that. Muslims living in the West will have to abide according to the law of the land they reside in. Unlike humans with a narrow path of perception, The Almighty knows and understands every facet of human life over a very wide sphere. Alhumdulilah.
DeleteFurthermore whatever you said about the negative justice system in the West also happens in many modern so-called Muslim countries often to a much larger extent. Steeped in double standard, murderers going unpunished, corrupt rulers enjoy abuse of power, rapists are never accountable and on the contrary the women who're victims of rape are punished, zina and consumption of alcohol are often rampant among elites in countries like Saudi Arabia and other oil rich gulf states, stifling despotism is rife, treachery by ganging up with the enemy against their own brethren is an accepted policy, zero spirit of fraternity, prisoners are tortured, maimed, raped, sodomized, executed merely for expressing their opinion and so on. Do you think Allah is pleased with such folks simply because they have given themselves the label of "Muslims?" Also take a look at the non-Muslim non-western societies such as hindu & buddhist bigots in India & Burma committing the most ghastly genocides and violations - murder, rape, arson, sex-slavery, occupation, desecrating Islam, burning of masjids - against Muslims with no accountability whatsoever.
In many ways, the West is closer to observing various Islamic laws than many of those so-called Muslim countries as we see them at present. And of course, the non-Muslim non-western countries are the most terrible of all. Most Muslims are far happier in the West which certainly isn't perfect, but in comparison far better. Overall, at least the concept of justice and empathy is respected a lot more in many western states.
I would advise you to take a careful look at your own end before throwing rocks from a glasshouse. Excuse me brother, but you are so astonishingly narrow minded that your only method of analysis is judging in black & white. Please learn be cognitive and to reflect wider with a rational/practical approach. Reading the Quran with care and concentration on its entire contents is the best way to comprehend matters.
Im sorry sister but it appears my point has come across in a twisted way. I wasn't trying to denigrate the civil and political institutions of the West or any other place for that matter . My doubts were purely on the practical implications of repentance when the Quranic injunctions are not able to be realized due macro factors such as the secular justice system in the realm where some Muslims reside . For example , a Muslim , due to whatever reason committed murder and as a punishment he or she is given life imprisonment . Allah says in the Quran,
Delete"'O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty. - 2:178 (Y. Ali)"
So a murderer is liable to be killed as a deterrent and a means of justice for the heirs of the dead, in addition to forgiveness or lesser punishment . My question is simply this; given the non-conformance to the Quran with regards to the punishment meted, how can this individual make repentance considering there is nothing he or she can do about it when it comes to the punishment received ? Esp if the heirs themselves desire equal retribution instead of a cushy carefree life in prison ?
Can he or she genuinely repent while not being held accountable for their crimes, even if not by choice?
I hope I am presenting my query in a more logical sense this time, thank you for your time and patience in reading and responding to them. Jazakallahu khayran.
Ok, let me analyze it again. Verse 2:178 elucidates the implementation of justice, not double standard. As implied in the Quranic Words, "the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female" the punishment for one murdered victim must befall only on one other person, that is, the murderer .. unlike pre-Islamic times when a person of higher social status was killed, often more than one person of lower status of a less powerful tribe would be punished.
ReplyDeleteThe same Verse also says "But whoever overlooks from his brother anything, then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him with good conduct." The term "brother" carries the connotation of kindness alluding to brotherhood in humanity. The expression "suitable followup" ( fa-ittibāʿun bil-maʿrūfi) leaves the door open for whatever penalty considered suitable and blood money paid to the victims' families. It can also imply that if the victim's family is satisfied with blood money and then no further punishment for the murderer. Nowadays, in secular countries and also in most Muslim countries instead of the victim's family getting the last word, it's the head of state (president or prime minister) that has the final earthly authority for granting clemency to the convicted person in case of capital punishment. It's probably for fear that if the victim's family gets the final decision, they may demand to commit excesses. This issue has also been hinted in the Quran V.17:33 quote "And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law]." Whether or not Allah Almighty accepts the final earthly verdict of clemency coming from the head of state rather than family of the victim is up to Him to decide, depending on every such case. We cannot confirm our differing views. Though in those days incarceration was not in practice in the Arabian peninsula, in regard to the matter of "a suitable follow-up" it can certainly include life in prison for generations of later times (which btw isn't "cushy" or "carefree" for most), if that lessens the possibility of excesses on the accused by the victim's family or if such a penalty is in proportion to the nature of the crime.
Also, some laws might prefer a life sentence where there seems enough evidence to convict the accused, yet an element of doubt may linger of the extent of his/her guilt. In such a case, if at any time in future the hidden piece of evidence is discovered, the convicted person's punishment could be lessened or in some cases revoked altogether, depending on the details of the case.
If a murderer is killed (that is, gets the capital punishment) as a course of justice, then there's no question of additional forgiveness or lesser punishment. Personal repentance of the convicted person may not save them from the earthly verdict in most cases. If they're given the capital punishment with no repeal they'll have to face it. If it's a lengthy prison sentence, they'll have to finish it, though in some cases it can be scaled down based on good behavior. However, the real forgiveness of their true repentance (if at all the guilty experiences remorse) can only come from Allah Almighty on the Day of Judgment.
DeleteIf the trial of the accused is hasty, a summary trial, where he/she isn't given a proper chance to defend themselves and on the basis of such unjust trial the accused is given the death sentence would for sure be an enormous sin in the Sight of Allah Almighty. Those responsible will surely have to pay for it either in this world or in the next or both, unless they sincerely repent and never repeat the blunder.
All in all, the issue you're worrying about in Verse 2:178 is pretty much uncalled for as it leaves room for flexibility conditional upon the details of the case. Much more worrisome violations against humanity in other spheres of life are carried out both in secular as well as non-secular countries that need to be looked into.
Lately we've been observing some technical glitches in blogger's comment section. Alternatively we've opened MV's guestbook temporarily. We request guests to use MV guestbook instead for intros or essential comments only. No lengthy debates please.
ReplyDelete